To think that lots of men think this way

[Flynnshine]

Recently a good friend of my partners has split from his wife of 15 years, they have two young children between 10 and 13.
The husband has decided he isn't happy and wants to end the relationship.

Last week he came over to our house in the evening and I left him and my husband chatting in the living room. I wasn't eavesdropping but I was only in the next room so could hear their conversation. Basically the husband has been planning this split for a while, 6 months before he announced he wanted to end things he sold their beautiful big house and they moved into their much smaller starter home which they had out on rent - they moved the kids out of their private school education and into a state school local to their new home.

They've always had a very comfortable life, beautiful house, nice cars and very fancy holidays a few times a year. They both had good jobs when they first met but when the children came along the wife stopped work and dedicated her life to them. They've done amazingly well at school, both top of their classes, sporty and do two sports for their local borough. They are polite and thoughtful and genuinely lovely children.

The conversation I overheard was the husband complaining that even though the wife hasn't paid towards the mortgage for over 10 years she will still be entitled to half of what the house is worth - he seemed bitter and angry and said he'd been hiding money for ages so she wouldn't get anything when they divorce. He's even planning on quitting his job and becoming self employed so he can fudge his earnings so his maintenance payments could be less. My husband was agreeing with him, I don't know if just to placate him or if that's really how he feels!

This man honestly thinks that because he has been working and paying a mortgage that his worth is so much more. He thinks he has enabled her to not work for over 10 years and that she has been having a jolly all that time. It's like he gives zero shits that he has two wonderful children that he has never had to lift a finger for and she has given her all to those children while he reaps the rewards of that.

Do all men deep down think like this, even if they won't openly admit it? Is money really the be all and end all of everything!?

Aridane

I can't think of any successful men whose wives also have careers.

I can.

In my profession (legal), it's quite common for lawyers to be married to other lawyers (albeit with the support of nanny, cleaner etc).

Yea with a nanny and a cleaner!!
CAN YOU READ?!

Seriously do I operate in a different male universe? Women's work is also taking care of their husbands parents and it's expected? Women's work?? Really? In 2019?? Then those Women need to tell their husbands clearly what is and is not their "work". I honestly can't believe some of the comments on here. It's like I've walked through the looking glass or something back to 1885? Not one of the husbands I know would ever expect their wives to take care of their parents - 1 because such responsibilities are shared and 2 - the women I know would tell them where to get off!!! Really shocked at the comments here - when everyday we're trying to teach young girls that they can be whatever they want to be - that there is no such thing as women's work!!!

And unless women start to change that it never will - exactly my point. It's up to us to decide what we want and go for it. We have got where we are today on the shoulders of other women who fought for all sorts of equal rights - it's up to us now to be the shoulders for future generations.

@AnnoyedinJanuary

Here here. I fail to have any sympathy for women in marriages described by many on this thread (excluding abuse of course) because as I said to a previous poster 1) they are enabling it 2) at risk of raising children with similar "standards" causing the cycle to continue.

There is NOTHING in a man's biology that suggest he can't be a "house keeper" or a caret, it's as offensive and ridiculous to say that as it is to say a woman can't drive as well or do maths! Wake up!

*carer

And what if they have to - to give them the best possible start in life? What then? What if they have to do it just to pay rent or mortgage and bills. And I've known loads of kids whose mum stayed at home and still went off the rails!!! Once they start school it's fairly irrevelant anyway as they're out all day......

My husband is the bread winner. He earns in an hour what I could earn in day.
How do you go about making this fair. 50/50.
I want to work, but my job (Accounts Assistant ) pays less than it did 10 years ago, let alone the fact Iv'e been out of work for years (Redundancy!!)
I am officially screwed, and rely on my husbands good nature to see me right. I'm retraining, but I still won't earn enough to support myself, let alone a family.
The reason....LOW WAGES. This county is disgusting. We as tax payers, subsidise low wages!!
So Companies can pay LOW WAGES.
NO ONE working a full time job should need tax credits, etc etc!! They should be paid enough to live on from the outset!!
This would go a long way to also ensuing Woman with kids and a full time job, could actually survive!! Go back to work, be contributing partners etc!

This is horrible to read. Please do his poor wife a favour and find a way to relay the details of the conversation you overheard. He needs to be taken to task immediately and she will need ammunition to help her to get what she is entitled too.

The men that think like this, don't secretly, not letting their mask slip if thee can help it, built does from time to time. I am deeply saddened to have also been privy to such conversations by men. Some men wouldn't dream of risking deprivation by their DC or DPs/DWs.

I think men that think this way only consider themselves and their money, and not greater humanity.

Im not sure how its reasonable to seek to deprive when it does seem that a sahm hugely enables a dh to focus heavily on career for everyone's benefit, not just the DHs!

If I were you I'd be more concerned that your husband was agreeing with him. Have you questioned him/discussed what you overheard?

@whatsupapp how do you make it fair? You pool your money together and pay for the childcare out of the pool, stop seeing the childcare as your responsibility, it really isn't as impossible as it looks. There were times when both my kids were in nursery I'm sure we were less off than if I wasn't working but it's such a short period of time in the scheme of things, I didn't look at it like that, in the time my I had my eldest to my youngest starting school I tripled my salary, if my DH did a runner (not that I think he would of course!) but if anything happened I am secure. It doesn't matter who was earning what.

There's no law that says women have to give up work following the birth of a baby - women can also go back to work - it's called child care!!!

I agree women have won the battle to be able to WOH. So much so it is now expected. Shame no one took the housework/childcare/mental load off them to compensate accordingly. Men still ‘help out’ as and when they see fit, as it is out of society’s view what goes on at home. So SAHM are widely believed to enjoy a life of yoga and coffee mornings (with three children!) while WOH mothers are ‘contributing’, but actually are either severely cutting corners at home/ with children or trying to be superwomen doing it all. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.

Apologies if this has been mentioned, but I do hope she asks for a full financial disclosure. In doing so he will have to provide details on all his finances going back a few years. He will have to declare every bank account he has and explain every cash deposit into any account as he will also have to explain every withdrawal. He'll need to really up his game if he thinks it's really that simple.

My ex husband has recently tried all that, even claiming he doesn't own his various properties, but the legal register shows him the owner. Can't argue with that. I've experienced so many methods that my ex has tried to ensure I get nothing. Pity he forgot I have ears, eyes and a brain.

@userme18 EXACTLY!!! Can you imagine the outrage if we said girls were crap at maths!!! We have to stop saying traits are related to what sex you are - I have female friends who can't make toast while their husbands are like chefs!!!! I know great dads and crap mums - but at the end of the day they're all just people...... and the only way we will stop this men breadwinner vs women homemaker is for everyone to do their fair share!!!! If this guy wants to hide his money - a woman in the same position might well want to do the same!!! Because they're people not because they're men or woman!!!

@MillionScarletRoses seriously what decade are you from? I don't deny that there is still a lot of work to do to take the load of housework off many women (most of whom need to take responsibility of this), but your attitude of "men won't do it" is hindering progress, you make it sound like their gender of which is out of their control means they can't ever achieve it, it's sexist and stupid. As I say all the couples in my family are not what you describe, my husband is more likely to take time off work when they're sick as he works closer to home, he was the last to take them to the doctor, he does majority of the laundry, he isn't "helping out" we are raising our children and keeping our house, together.

There is another thread running where a woman is being told to go get a job to help towards the household finances.

I believe everyone should have a job as a contributing citizen in society. To not work past the last child going to school is not on really and leaves yourself open to this happening.

The man as stated in the OP is obviously an extreme example but really the wife has left herself very vulnerable.

Also kids don't need to go to private school to excel.

FayFortune
UserMe18

Assuming you can get childcare!!!
I had my son , and had a childminder, (went back to work) Had my second, same childminder. Got made redundant. Husband got made redundant. Took the only job available, sold house, lost support of family nearby.
No affordable childcare!

What then ?

I tried to get work, ( low wages ) Even for my experience. 2 kids childcare , more than i could earn. Already just making ends meet!

And unless women start to change that it never will - exactly my point. It's up to us to decide what we want and go for it. We have got where we are today on the shoulders of other women who fought for all sorts of equal rights - it's up to us now to be the shoulders for future generations.

I agree with this. I think it should be the norm that both parents make sacrifices/adjustments to accommodate child care if they choose to have them. I struggle with those who's partners are earning huge amounts, kids in private school but then saying that childcare is too expensive. I get the first few years are expensive but if you plan a child you surely plan that in too.
As soon as I told work I was pregnant I was asked if I'll be going back to work, no one at Dp's work asked him that.

I'm not saying no one should ever be a SAHP. If that's what you want and works for you. But I do think it should be done knowing the risks and with a back up plan if things go wrong and it's got to be a mutual decision. It's not for me, but if I did it, I'd have to have some money put aside in my name, plus full access to the family money, savings, investments and a good private pension.

Now I'm looking at a minimum wage job to get back to work, nevermind all my experience!! I still can't find childcare ! (In city) Husbands job in the city-well paid.
After school clubs FULL, Childminders FULL

Million it sounds like you just married a crappy man. Many women would not marry or partner up with a man who was wilfully unable to share ALL responsibilities - whether that’s one who expected to go to work and do bugger all around the house/with the kids, or one who expected to be a SAHD indefinitely (there is also a thread running to this effect)

They don't need to go to private school to excel but it clearly mattered that they did, that until he decided it didn't and disrupted all their lives!! It is massive moving DC out of private school, what a fucking shit frankly!

If a dp is working ott hours and leaves no time to take a share of responsibility for the day to day running of the house, never mind sharing the actual chores, what room is there for another to have such a shot at a career? It is a case of having to be superwoman or do it alone, and you have to high a high earning job to pay for decent childcare, and only spend an hour with your DC a night. How many need to be away from home 13 hours a day? Is it normal?

You see, when women post ‘my dh earns in an hour what I’d earn in a day’ my first question is: how did this come about?

Females outperform males at just about every level of education now. They leave university with the same prospects. Yes, we all know there is some disparity between men and women’s earnings and that’s absolutely wrong when it’s purely a gender issue.

But no woman will be married to a man who literally earns 5 or 10 x what she does unless
A) she has chosen a lower paying career and chosen to partner a man who earns multiples of what she does, or
B) she earned pretty equally to him at one point, but chose to stop working for an extended period, or chose not to chase promotions, or chose to work part time.

I’m all for fairness and am the first to call out gender inequality where it exists. But a lot of this is down to choices which we make... what career to go into, who to partner and have children with, whether to give up work, reduce hours etc.