To wish universities wouldn’t give out so many unconditional offers?

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Dd is in Year 13 and applying to university.

She’s reasonably bright but has never been super-academic or interested in school. She has decent but not stellar predicted grades and ok GCSEs. She probably could have done better if she’d worked harder.

She struggled to decide what course to apply for at university (she’s never been particularly devoted to any of her subjects - she’s not someone who would go away and do extra reading) but eventually settled on modern languages.

She sent off her application at the end of October - to unis along the lines of Birmingham, Nottingham, Sheffield etc.

Within a month she had heard back from all 5, with four making her unconditional-if-firm offers and one (probably the highest scoring in league tables of the 5) offering her a place for AAA or BBB if firmed.

I’m quite concerned that without the pressure of needing to get the grades to get her place, she isn’t going to have any great motivation to try in her A-levels this summer. She already didn’t do much work over the Christmas holiday.

AIBU for wishing universities would get rid of these bribing ‘unconditional-if-firm’ offers? If they need to get bums on seats, could they not just be lenient on Results Day and let in students who miss their offers?

I also don’t really understand why they’d be happy to take her even if she bombed in her A-levels - as long as they were her firm choice - but they might end up refusing to take her if it was her insurance choice and she only missed the offer by one grade. If they’re so keen on her application that they want her whatever her A-levels then why doesn’t that hold true if they’re her insurance?

One thing often overlooked is how stressful UiFs are for students trying to make decisions. They might have a slightly preferred uni offering, say BBC, and then another one, offering BBC or UiF. My DS has two like that. I ahd a very able student I taught last year in tears at the dilemma he had been served up by Nottingham offering this to him, which he knew full well is an excellent uni, where Birmingham was asking for A*AA. He had slightly favoured Birmigham. In the end he did select Birmingham, but the stress was enormous for him and for teachers, who could not provide cast iron certainty that he would get those grades (he did, thank God!)

I prefer Aberystwyth's system, whereby students can sit an exam. If they are successful, they get a reduced offer : eg BBC becomes CCD. It ssems more motivating.

On a side note, only on MN is someone predicted AAA not academic!

A lot of your DD's unconditionals may be explained by the fact that it's MFL.

Can I ask again, if you are offered an unconditional offer does this mean you can get in with 3 Es or what about if you fail one of the A levels?

Ragwort- I assume that it’s what it says, with no conditions attached. So if the students fails an A’level or gets 3 E’s the uni still has to honour its promise. But, I think this scenario is rather extreme and rarely happens as they look carefully at past results (GCSEs and predicted) before making these offers.

A girl in DD's year was given an unconditional offer, but it was conditional that she needed to achieve grades. As she wasn't academic, and lazy I assume that she scraped through with EEE.

ragwort an unconditional offer is just that. There is a place for you regardless.....you could not bother sitting any exams and that place would still be there for you.

They seem great on the surface ( to the students at least) but can cause some unexpected issues.

By accepting an unconditional offer you are accepting a place at that university. There are no insurance offers, you can't enter clearing or adjustment and if you change your mind and want to go elsewhere there are a number of administrative hoops to jump through to get released from that place - some universities really drag their heels on this.

I hate them - it unethical recruitment.

"I hate them - it unethical recruitment."

I agree. Also, doesn't it cause problems in seminars/tutorials when you have some students who scraped in with EEE and some who achieved ABC? Is there more dumbing down at these universities? At universities where the entry requirements are, for example AAA wouldn't there be a smaller range of academic capacity?

If a university is doing blanket unconditional offers then pretty much everyone in that room has arrived there via an unconditional. Sometimes where conditional offers are used there can be some resentment aimed at those that arrived through clearing and therefore achieved lower grades.

There isn't dumbing down but academics get very frustrated at how unprepared for university students students can be. Schools teach students to pass exams but we expect them to arrive as independent, autonomous learners.

*university study

They have removed the cap on student numbers and unis are dishing out firsts like sweets now.
Unis need bums on seats and therefore it will be doing everyone a disservice.

Yes the removal of student number controls has resulted in more aggressive marketing and unconditional offers are a direct result of this. Grade inflation and the pressure to increase your 2:1's and firsts is another issue entirely.

I disagree that universities are doing everyone a disservice. Student experience and student satisfaction is at the heart of what most of us do.

"I disagree that universities are doing everyone a disservice"

I am given to understand that all degrees aren't equal, for example a first from Leeds Beckett would perhaps be the same as a 2.2 or 3rd from Oxford. So surely, in this respect it is a problem?

lonicera

And in effect the students not getting what theyve paid for

Oxford and Cambridge (and a handful of other institutions) are in a league of their own. They attract very high achieving applicants - usually from very affluent backgrounds.

A first from Oxford is different from a first from Leeds Beckett. However, it doesn't mean that a degree from Leeds Beckett, or any other university for that matter, is worthless. Leeds Beckett are excellent at architecture, sport and primary teaching.....a degree from there in one of those subjects would be extremely useful.

We need to be wary in comparing universities in that way because it ignores issues such as social mobility and widening participation.

England has a crazy system.

Things in Scotland are much different- students are offered places on actual results not predicted.
They take the bulk of their exams required for University in their penultimate year at school- a whole year before they start University.

LoniceraJaponica the grade range listed ( like AAA-AAB) is often because it depends on what Alevel subjects are being taken. A candidate wanting to study zoology who is taking Bio, Chem and psychology might get offered AAB where one doing just one science would need AAA.

This is why Bangor said UIF.... BUT woukd throw money at dd of she still hot her grades.

So we want you but please don't stop trying for those good grades.

I work at one of the universities mentioned as having given an unconditional offer and I’m very surprised to see it listed here - it’s university policy not to give out unconditional offers for unqualified candidates

These days universities are just businesses. The whole system is a mess.

And you'd right about people not working as hard because they know they're already in. I feel for you OP because it must be incredibly frustrating to have a child that you know is capable of all As but just won't put the work in.

The head teachers at secondary schools must be furious with the impact unconditional offers could have on their results and league table standings.

As an employer, academic qualifications are becoming less and less trusted due to rampant grade inflation at all levels and the perception that there are numbers of uni courses that lack academic rigour. Faced with large numbers of applicants who are academically indistinguishable, other means of selection will become increasingly necessary.

Every headteacher I've spoken to says it makes universities look desperate.
I agree and I work for a university!

I am not sure headteachers are all that close to the chalkface. I am a teacher and have not noticed a perceptible shift in student work or attitude and loads of my class last year had unconditionals. The one boy aside, I actually could not have told you what offers my students had last year.

I know UCAS says students given Unconditionals performed below predictions, but that is predicated upon accurate predicted grades.

Just to pick up on seomthing asserted earlier. Last year I taught 4 or 5 very very studious and focused boys , all of whom were doing combinations of Eng Lit/ history/ creative writing. The least 'studious' boys at my school tend to do economics/ business/sciences.

This thread is a complete eye-opener! I'm actually hoping that DS2 doesn't get any unconditionals now. He's predicted ABB and another B for his EPQ so he's looking good but not fantastic. We just had a chat in the car and l passed on the MN version of events - he said he was going to hold his nerve and go for the two courses he really liked the sound of whatever he got offered, so that sounds pretty positive!

Thank you solly. That makes the most sense.

ragwort an unconditional offer is just that. There is a place for you regardless.....you could not bother sitting any exams and that place would still be there for you.

That's what I understood an unconditional offer was but I'm confused because the OP said her daughter's received unconditional-if-firm offers.