To wish universities wouldn’t give out so many unconditional offers?

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Dd is in Year 13 and applying to university.

She’s reasonably bright but has never been super-academic or interested in school. She has decent but not stellar predicted grades and ok GCSEs. She probably could have done better if she’d worked harder.

She struggled to decide what course to apply for at university (she’s never been particularly devoted to any of her subjects - she’s not someone who would go away and do extra reading) but eventually settled on modern languages.

She sent off her application at the end of October - to unis along the lines of Birmingham, Nottingham, Sheffield etc.

Within a month she had heard back from all 5, with four making her unconditional-if-firm offers and one (probably the highest scoring in league tables of the 5) offering her a place for AAA or BBB if firmed.

I’m quite concerned that without the pressure of needing to get the grades to get her place, she isn’t going to have any great motivation to try in her A-levels this summer. She already didn’t do much work over the Christmas holiday.

AIBU for wishing universities would get rid of these bribing ‘unconditional-if-firm’ offers? If they need to get bums on seats, could they not just be lenient on Results Day and let in students who miss their offers?

I also don’t really understand why they’d be happy to take her even if she bombed in her A-levels - as long as they were her firm choice - but they might end up refusing to take her if it was her insurance choice and she only missed the offer by one grade. If they’re so keen on her application that they want her whatever her A-levels then why doesn’t that hold true if they’re her insurance?

PP said Exeter are notorious offenders but they actually give a lowered offer but don't do unconditionals.

There are a few RG ones who do, I'm surprised at Newcastle as they never used to.

It's a mixture and it's going to get worse now there aren't module results or a/s levels to draw upon.

I think unconditional offers will eventually die out. Schools and colleges hate them as do academics ( on the whole) and I think it is having an impact on reputation.
We're in a really tough market at the moment. There is a huge demographic dip at the moment ( meaning there aren't as many 18 year olds around) and a number of government policies have made student recruitment a difficult business to be in.
There are some aggressive marketing practices taking place at the moment and unconditional offers are just one of them.

The thing is that is absolutely distorting because teachers are beginning to predict A*s to students who might get A's or even B's (nothing wrong with that..A & Bs are great) BECAUSE THEY KNOW THE OUTCOME WILL BE A UNCONDITIONAL FROM A PRESTIGIOUS UNI LIKE BIRMINGHAM OR SURREY. And students are asking for high predictions to encourage that stream of unconditionals, that their older friends have benefited from.

whereas in the old days, or recent history, it backfired if you predicted, as a teacher, too high, because it set your students up for failure to firm the correct university.

I haven't made it clear, ds1's favourite WAS Cardiff, but fear of not meeting the grades was enough to deter him when there was a unconditional alternative in the form of OB.

What would have been better would have been for OB to make an offer which wasn't unconditional but lower, and then he could have made an informed but "unpanicked" decision without losing all his options in one fell swoop.

Once she has a degree no one will care what her a levels are.

Not true.A levels are very important as a comparator between students because an A level ( in say maths), is an n a level in maths wherever it is sat.

DD applied to her choice of 5 across a wide range. Interview and still on tenterhooks for Cambridge until Monday.

All the rest came back with AAA (York) AAA (Notts) ABB (Liverpool) and BBC (Bangor).
Banger then started haggling.
UC if firmed.
Then £3.5k bursary if firmed and she still got her predicted grades (or at least AAA)

From what I've heard about York they will almost certainly drop their grades on results day (know two examples of people getting in to do very popular subjects on lower grades than they were asked for, once they had firmed it) Again Liverpool I know someone who was asked for ABB getting in on ABC for a "difficult subject", as an insurance choice. Especially if you have an offer from Oxbridge which you don't meet in August.

I think people feel they cannot have an insurance and firm with the same grades. But there is every likelhood, IF that university isn't Birmingham, that your insurance university asking for AAA will take you if you drop a grade and don't make Cambridge at the last minute.

Bangor offering an Unconditional smacks of desperation in these circs, but Bangor don't know where else you have applied. You might have applied to other universities which will offer Unconditionals.

But it does show that at the opposite ends of the spectrum universities are employing different tactics. Presumably some unis think they look more prestigious with higher offers, but will drop them nearer the time.

"I think people feel they cannot have an insurance and firm with the same grades. But there is every likelhood, IF that university isn't Birmingham, that your insurance university asking for AAA will take you if you drop a grade and don't make Cambridge at the last minute."

It didn't work for DD's BF. Oxford wanted AAA, and so did his insurance of Edinburgh. He received rejections from both on UCAS track when he got ABB, and ended up going through clearing.

But Lonicera he had dropped two grades. I know the same thing happened to someone with an offer from Oxford who got ABB and was rejected from Birmingham, who wanted AAB. But it was presumably because they had enough people with AAB to fill that course, even from Clearing, or suspected they might get plenty of people from Clearing in due course. Or maybe he was predicted A*s and they smelt a rat, felt he hadn't worked hard enough etc.

OP, what is Sheffield offering your DD if she makes then her reserve?

The university he went to, if I remember rightly, also asks for similar grades if you read their prospectus, yet were offering lower grades in Clearing. (This in fact was a uni that rejected Ds outright, so they had pretty high standards , although I do blame that rejection on his EU status)

A

"Or maybe he was predicted A*s and they smelt a rat, felt he hadn't worked hard enough etc."

He didn't work hard enough. I think if he had got in he would have dropped out by now. He is naturally bright, but very a little workshy (according to his mum)

The entry requirements are AAB-BBB

What does it mean when they put the range of grades. Are the lower ones for contextual offers?

tbh I don't know that many young men doing Humanities subjects who are incredibly studious. It seems counterintuitive at that age. They bounce around or spend hours pursuing some special interest, which is not necessarily academic but kind of supports their academic development. Whereas girls seems to genuinely take pleasure in getting their heads down and concentrating. But it can change as they get older. And universities make allowances for that possible sea change, don't you think? They have seen it all before. 17-18 year olds mature into studious 21 year olds.

I know several kids who got in on results day last year with significantly dropped grades from their offers to very good universities: York and Durham in particular and one even to Oxford (though he actually got his grades back up on remarking but Oxford took him before he knew that). So I wouldn't worry too much about not having unconditionals from top places.

Please don't let the students think A levels don't matter, grades really matter. This crops up when the final years start applying for graduate schemes (accounting, law, big business type firms). The schemes want combinations like a minimum 2:1 degree and AAB at A level. This even applies to MSc or PhD students looking for graduate schemes. Which is really bonkers because postgrads have already proven themselves by achieving a good undergrad degree. I've had many students in my office in tears because of it (prev job taught in uni).

well, maybe you are right, and Glasgow has lower requirements. It was the first Open Day we went to, and Ds1 fell in love with the architecture and the atmosphere, and the lectures. But got rejected outright for having the wrong predicted grades (one was a Btec)

Interesting points Nettle. You have hit the nail on the head re the procrastinating and finding other things to do. Interestingly all the male students at DD's school who did really well at A levels all did STEM subjects.

DD is too afraid of failure to not work, although she did need some gentle reminders along the way.

In terms of A level grades mattering, we were told at Lancaster that any student who wanted to do a year abroad had to have strong A levels and to have made excellent academic progress in the first year.

Lonicera there are also some Scottish students who do A levels, and apply as Scottish students (Tuition exempt) for which is there is a quota, so they presumably need to get the higher grades at A level. Whereas there is no quota for the UK applicants who bring in the money, and they presumably are given a bit more leeway on grades. I'm not sure about contextual offers.

I was wondering how this worked in English universities because they often have two tiers of A level grades as well. For instance Newcastle state that they want AAA - AAB for biomedical science.

Nettle and Lonicera - interesting. Over the last few years, the very hardest working and most dedicated students I've known have all been boys - across a range of subjects, engineering, law and history being the standouts though (their Uni subject, not their A levels).

The two tiers are contextual and/or if the candidate is outstanding.

Our sixth form had pupils accepted into Bristol, Durham, Birmingham,Manchester and Leeds with one or two dropped grades last year. Nottingham took a pupil with an AAA offer in at BBB without clearing.

It's a buyers market.

Wow wish that was the case in 2003 when I first applied! I got a couple rejections just becasue my personal statement was a bit different (it was for a journalism course so I wrote it in a form of an interview transcript. They couldn't have made the decision based on anything else since I was yet to take A levels.) Well no wonder there are all these kids at studentroom bragging about RG admissions

lonicera entry requirements are simply a guideline. Admissions tutors can offer anything they like......

Contextual offers are something slightly different and will be taking into account things like school attended, postcode, socioeconomic background, parental engagement in HE etc.

DS had an offer from Cardiff with entryrequirements of ABB-BBB. His offer is BBB and it’s not contextual one at all, just based on his predicted.

Those of you off to Scottish universities,do you normally apply to year one to do the four urs or is that plan to enter direct to year two?