To wish universities wouldn’t give out so many unconditional offers?

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Dd is in Year 13 and applying to university.

She’s reasonably bright but has never been super-academic or interested in school. She has decent but not stellar predicted grades and ok GCSEs. She probably could have done better if she’d worked harder.

She struggled to decide what course to apply for at university (she’s never been particularly devoted to any of her subjects - she’s not someone who would go away and do extra reading) but eventually settled on modern languages.

She sent off her application at the end of October - to unis along the lines of Birmingham, Nottingham, Sheffield etc.

Within a month she had heard back from all 5, with four making her unconditional-if-firm offers and one (probably the highest scoring in league tables of the 5) offering her a place for AAA or BBB if firmed.

I’m quite concerned that without the pressure of needing to get the grades to get her place, she isn’t going to have any great motivation to try in her A-levels this summer. She already didn’t do much work over the Christmas holiday.

AIBU for wishing universities would get rid of these bribing ‘unconditional-if-firm’ offers? If they need to get bums on seats, could they not just be lenient on Results Day and let in students who miss their offers?

I also don’t really understand why they’d be happy to take her even if she bombed in her A-levels - as long as they were her firm choice - but they might end up refusing to take her if it was her insurance choice and she only missed the offer by one grade. If they’re so keen on her application that they want her whatever her A-levels then why doesn’t that hold true if they’re her insurance?

Shalom- I know. It had never occurred to us that he would be getting any unconditional offers given the unis he is applying to. I am surprised at the lowered offer that OP's daughter had from Exeter and that unconditional offers are so common.

One way to keep pressure on to get the grades you think your dc is capable of is a financial offer. Since the majority of students still require some parental money make your contribution dependant of getting certain grades. They don’t have to be the same as what the offers might be, but do need to be high enough that you think they can realistically manage the course. So if they score less than CCC for example do you think they have the ability and work ethic to manage an MFL degree? If all they want to do is party at least you aren’t funding it and they will need a part time job.

If it's for languages it's because most language departments are very near to closing so they're absolutely desperate for students....

It's not usually the case that a Russell Gp applicant would get so many UiFs.

I do agree OP though.

I am surprised at the lowered offer that OP's daughter had from Exeter and that unconditional offers are so common

We were very surprised about Exeter too - I thought they had higher standards!

The school she attends is a comp and a little below average nationally (though not terrible) so maybe universities are more inclined to give her lowered offers for that reason?

OP, that could well be the reason.Exeter do say that they make contextual offers.

...although you would have expected the lower offer to be made from the outset if that was the reason.

Agreed and don't get me started on the amount of 1st now being handed out by Universities.

I graduated in 2002 and one student got a first on my course which seemed the norm then.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-40654933

yourdaughter post qualification applications gets discussed every few years but major structural changes to the school and university calendar would be required and that would be disruptive and costly.

I think the reason for the unconditional offers might be the fact that she's applying for mfl. Language departments are really struggling with falling applicant numbers.

Every job application I’ve ever filled out also asked for school grades in addition to university qualifications. I’ve gone back to do some further study at college and they too were interested in school qualifications. Like PPs have said it could be her A-level results that help differentiate her when it comes to applying for her first graduate jobs.

There’s also a chance she won’t enjoy her course and want to switch or take a break and go back to a completely different university or course. Her A-levels would most definitely be considered in this situation. It’s not uncommon for students to change courses and it sounds like she may have only made her course choice due to time pressure.

Have a gentle chat with her about where she sees herself in the future and together consider some of the points made on this thread.

From the little info you give about your daughter I am not sure university is for her. Report today saying students now receive about 6 hours a week of staff contact meaning self learning is very important, so without self discipline she may struggle

When I was at school Oxford used to give out "unconditional offers" which meant two EEs but I think most of the students who received such an offer did a LOT better. Is that not the case with the unconditional offers these days?

Anyway if your daughter wants to do languages for goodness sake support her. We are going to need all the linguists we can get.

I interview for my company. We place more emphasis on A-level results than degree result, as we've found they're better correlated with success at our work. You can tell her from me that slacking at A-level just because you don't need them for uni would be unwise.

Less teenagers currently, less teenagers doing languages = a need to get bums on seats.

If you get an ‘unconditional’ offer does it mean that you must at least pass the ‘A’ levels ie; get in with 3 Es? ( or worse?..)

I agree it is madness, my DS has received one unconditional offer, not for his first or even second choice but of course is now tempted to accept it. It’s a minefield.

“Once she has a degree no one will care what her A levels are.”

Many posters are saying that as more students graduate with 2.1 then employers will look at A levels to differentiate candidates.

“I do think there may be an issue that unconditional offers result in academically incapable people going to uni, though. But I think that’s a different problem.”

I agree with this ^^

“Report today saying students now receive about 6 hours a week of staff contact”

That depends on the subject. STEM subjects have more contact hours. DD is going to do biomed and will have 20+ contact hours a week.

The ‘lower’ the university (and these are the ones who most typically offer unconditional

Not necessarily the case. You'd be surprised.

We were told at a subject talk at Manchester University that they don't hand out unconditional offers as they want the students to want to go there, not be bribed.

It's true some Russell Group unis hand out lots of unconditionals. Exeter and Birmingham seem to be prominent offenders. But I don't think there are many given by Durham, Oxbridge, Imperial or the LSE.

Ds1 got an unconditional, he does struggle with anxiety and depression so it did take the pressure off him and he did well

I appreciate that with some children they begin to slack off , maybe even most children

But It worked for him...ill have to see whether i feel the same with the other two children

Not the best university (according to mumsnet) but he seems happy there. His gcse grades were As and Bs and his AS at the time were C,D,E and E!!! Fuck knows how he got the unconditional

I lifted this from Which

"In 2018, 67% of those who held an unconditional offer as their first choice missed their predicted grades by two or more grades (compared to 57% of conditional first choice holders).

Gosh, I wish I’d got a few unconditional offers. (Graduated 2002) Unconditional offers wee rare then! As were 1sts. My niece has three unconditional offers. Good for her but yes, devalues the uni & course in the long run.

lonicera to add some context to that ....three quarters of predicted grades are incorrect anyway.

I hate the trend of unconditional offers. My uni refuses to go down that route which is great but our biggest rival pretty much offers blanket unconditional offers and pressure young people to make a decision quickly.....it's tantamount to bribery. It's disgraceful.

That's interesting Blaa
Do teachers get it wrong or do they inflate the grades so the students can get the offers?

Do you think that universities that don't offer unconditional offers will become more prestigious?

Ds1 took up an unconditional from Oxford Brookes. He gained more than they asked for in A level grades. However it did put him a very awkward position when he was making decisions, as he had two unconditionals, one from Hull and two conditionals.

I think the fact that he had firm in the sense of committing himself to one university only, was quite overwhelming at that stage in his A levels and certain panic set in, and he chose the no-brainer (near, delightful setting, no problems with getting the grades) I think feeling he could have had two open options would have been more appropriate. The summer to think about it.

Now, I wonder whether the best solution would be for people to firm their favourite unless they offer on stratospheric grades, and just not have an insurance.

Then when you get your grades you can go into Clearing and probably find the same course as was available unconditionally, for the same grades as you have achieved, even if advertised as ABB or BBC or BBB, in Clearing it would be lower.

It is just that UCAS doesn't tell you that, and the unis are not going to, as everyone has a vested interest in you organising and signing up well in advance.

It is possible to firm conditional offer and not have an insurance.

that would encourage people to try their best on the basis that they will probably get the grades for an insurance through Clearing, if they really are up to that course.

Ds would have certainly got his offer through Clearing in the event of firming his higher offer (which was Cardiff) as he had already done the interview at O B.

He loves it there though. I'm glad it has worked out so well, and it took a lot of pressure off him re: accommodation. Still I think he might have got a slightly higher grade in one A level if the pressure had been on.