AIBU to wonder why so many have issues with trans

[Blue09]

Before I start I want to make it clear I’m not trans. I’m asking this as every time I’m on mumsnet there seems to be a post against trans people, more male to female bashing than anything else.

AIBU in asking what the problem is?

I usually consider myself to be an open minded person and I genuinely don’t care what other people choose to do so long as it’s legal but it does make me wonder how many people have actually been born in the wrong body. And a lot of folk on here seem to get very upset about it. Would you mind explaining why it bothers you so much?

@PositivelyPERF

I have been. More than one job I have applied for recently ha stated that BAME, disabled and LGBTQ+ are guaranteed an interview. As a straight white female that means I am disadvantaged, ergo discriminated against

I'm a bit pissed that women's sports is dead. Not as pissed as girls in Muslim countries who cannot escape forced marriage, lack of healthcare and poverty, through their talent anymore, but still pissed.

Also can't ignore that if TW were women they'd be getting told to shut up, give up sports and legal protections and be nice about it, but only the non trans women are being told that.
While TRAs (extremists) are screaming "you are not a Woman you bleeder you are a ciswoman only Trans women are women".
It's as if TWs are more important than non trans women, but it's not sexism.....

I’m not a very sporty person, myself, but I do know what it’s like to spend years of your life prioritising learning a skill, making financial and social sacrifices along the way.

Male-bodied people are now allowed to compete in women’s sporting events. Including mixed martial arts. Can’t imagine how it feels spending years in the gym, making all the neccessary financial and social sacrifices, only to step into the ring and get your eye socket smashed to bits by someone who was born a boy and lived as a man for 35 years (see ‘Fallon Fox’).

medium.com/@Antonia_Lee/of-sport-sex-and-gender-23b455e44b61

Children shouldn't be encouraged to make irreversible decisions. Growing up is hard - how do you know you're not gay, bi of simply non-gender conforming rather than trans? Not wanting to be the sex you're born as is not the same as wanting to be the other sex. Mental Health is shockingly poorly funded for children who feel unhappy. Support shouldn't involve taking hormones that render you infertile. A child can not make a decision like that !

Not coming back, OP? You wouldn't be a sealioning plopper would you?

The slogan "Woman: Adult Female " is considered hate speech. Words like woman and lesbian are being taken over by people with penis'

Oh do come on FoldyRoll; next you'll be saying that some of the goadier comments are actually to collect screenshots for 'proof' of how nasty we are.
Oh wait that does actually happen, doesn't it.

I actually find gay pride marches offensive because there is no equivalent for heterosexual people.

You'll be pleased to hear that the 'anti trans' protest you saw in the press this year is some proof that Pride is a hetero parade and now considers homosexuality as 'bigotry' if it doesn't include heterosexuality.....only for female homosexuals obviously.

In decades to come, the issue of how we're treating trans children will be one of national shame. Puberty blockers et al: in all but the very most extreme cases, well it's just wrong.

a post against trans people
Could you link to one that’s ‘against trans people’ please? I don’t mean one that is pro rights for women just one that is exclusively against trans. Just one. Any one will do. Also, out of interest, is it the lateness of the hour that leads you to ponder these issues?

Ah bless, you don’t seem to have come back to the thread. You must be very sleepy. I know let’s wait till, what? Half hour from now? Then we can all just assume you’re a common or garden misogynistic prick, yeah?

I wonder why. Answers ...

1. Women are women and men are men.
2. Children should not be given drugs or surgery to change their bodies - that will be known as an experiment gone wrong in 20-30 years.
3. Kids dont need rights to choose their gender as they enter preschool or fill out registration forms.
4. Babies don’t need permission to have their nappies changed.

The world has gone mad.

I'm a bit pissed that women's sports is dead. Not as pissed as girls in Muslim countries who cannot escape forced marriage, lack of healthcare and poverty, through their talent anymore, but still pissed.

What the hell are you on about? Are you sure every Muslim country is in poverty and are forcing all their women into arranged marriages? I’m sure SOME women who are victims of poverty in SOME Muslim countries (same way SOME women suffer in western countries) don’t really want a xenophobic’s sympathies, so keep them to yourself.

Just for reference:

Pakistani Women’s National cricket team

Turkish Women’s National volleyball team

Malaysian Women’s basketball league

Pakistani Women’s National hockey team

Egyptian Women’s national football team

It is impossible to be born in the wrong body. It is possible to believe you were born in the wrong body. Unfortunately the NHS fund these people to either have their genitals removed or use part of their forearm to make a penis rather than putting the money into mental health services which is what these people actually need. It’s just ridiculous. What really annoys me is when you get them saying “I’m a real woman/man” when they’re the complete opposite. If you are born a woman or a man every single cell in your body has the according chromosome (ironically with the exception of some of men’s sperm cells which can be female). So no matter how many operations you have,hormones you take or bad wigs you buy you are still the gender you were born. For some insane reason we all have to go along with this rubbish. I’m sick of it

Ive not seen a single anti trans post. Plenty of anti self id, with very good reasons which the TRA dismiss as bigotry or with a patronising 'that would never happen'. The thing is, the things we worry about do happen. Women are less safe in areas where men are allowed. But our safety is deemed less important than mens feelings. Which is odd because all the times Ive had random men intimidate me for daring to exist, all the metoos Ive experienced no one gave a shiny shit about mine.

I have concerns around self id, the removal of women only safe spaces and the gender limitations pushed by the TRA lobby.
I do not have issues with trans men and women and I want them to be free to transition and live their lives without prejudice or fear.
You can question TRA ideology without hating trans men and women.

To believe someone is born in the wrong body is to believe that a male brain differs to a female brain. That is so offensive to me and totally undermines all the campaigning that women have done to fight to be accepted as equal to men. If everyone was free to wear whatever they wanted and be free to be gay, straight or bi then I think the world would be a better place.
Being a woman is not a feeling in a mans head. There is no gender, only sex.

Looking for screenshots op?

People have different concerns and reasons for being worried about this. Karen White is very alarming. For me my concern is with the number of young girls and it is overwhelming girls not boys, often with ASD who without out significant physiological support are going down a medical path which will leave them infertile, unable to orgasm and in lots of pain with serious complications for the rest of their lives because they don’t conform to societies increasingly narrow narative about what is means to be a women.

Because - men with penises and men and women with vulvas are women. I’m not about to feel comfortable with a man who has a penis change next to me just because he ‘feels’ he’s a woman now. He’s not and can never be. It’s too unsafe.

Mumsnet HQ, is there any reason why posts that use terms such as "Trans radical activists" or "TRAs" never seem to be deleted, but those using terms such as "Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminists" or "TERFs" always are? Surely both terms are equally as hotly debated?

This born in the wrong body guff is akin to a religious belief. I am an atheist and I dont believe in souls. Ergo I don't believe you can be born into the wrong body.

What I believe is wrong is the strict adherence to gender stereotypes prevalent in society. Men in particular aren't allowed to say they like to wear a dress and still be considered a man. Young women aren't allowed to have a masculine appearance. Stereotypes of masculinity and femininity are valued above all else, but only for the correct sexes. Get rid of gender stereotypes and I think there would be far fewer people feeling as though they had to transition to be themselves. TRA ideology relies entirely on entrenching gender stereotypes which harms everyone ultimately.

TRA isn't a slur, it's a handy way to differentiate between those people fighting to change laws etc, and the wider trans community.

Terf is a slur used to dehumanise women with a view to making it acceptable to threaten and conduct violence against them. If you've got a strong stomach, have a look at terfisaslur.com and remember a terf is anyone, usually women, who believes humans can't change sex.

It’s 99% live and let live, who cares, no problem. But the 1% Us stuff which needs to be talked about and compromises reached. As most people, trans and not trans agree. The problem is that the 1% has been weaponised, and all debate silenced.

I do not want my children to be taught gender stereotypes.

We should accept people for who they are and for how they would like to dress without the need to use external appearance and preferences to define them.

The human race has two sexes, with a statistical minority which are intersex. Surgery and treatment with synthetic hormones to change from one to the other will only ever change the physical appearance, it will never change an individual's chromosomes.

I would like my children to learn how to love themselves and others around them for who they are. I have a female child who plays football, non gendered lego, has mostly male friends and hasn't worn pink or a dress since she was 4 years old. She is coming up to puberty now, I do not want her to be exposed to a rhetoric that suggests she is anything other than a beautiful girl who will soon go through physical changes that will make her a woman. I reject the term 'tom boy' and defend her right to become whoever she wants to become but will defend her body and mind against harmful ideologies that could leave her infertile and with long term health impacts.

I have a male child who has long hair. He should never be included in a category that puts his choice of hair style in with a desire to change to the opposite sex.

Gender stereotypes are harmful to everyone. Up until recently, I pushed back on stereotypes that restricted the hours of after school sports provided to girls compared to boys, that showed more resources were put into helping boys to read than helping girls to do maths and that ingrained unconscious assumptions in school teaching left girls believing at the age of 10 that they were less able in STEM subjects than boys whereas they show the same abilities at age 5, the difference is entirely due to social expectations.

Quote from a Transinclusion Toolkit:

'Gender is considered to be a social construct in that children learn how to behave in a manner deemed to be in line with their assigned sex. This social construct includes the way gender can be expressed through roles, clothing and activities.'

WE SHOULD FIGHT AGAINST TEACHING CHILDREN TO BEHAVE IN A MANNER DEEMED TO BE IN LINE WITH THEIR ASSIGNED SEX, expressed through roles, clothing and activities and not reinforce these gender stereotypes by attempting to reassign sex to fit with these exaggerated caricatures!!

Women are presented with the inequality of achievement between men and women which is the result of centuries of the silencing of women and an imbalance in power and control of money. It is for these reasons what we need to continue to ensure that our girls are given the very best of opportunities. If we allow men into these comparisons, the only losers are women. Centuries have taught us that women are oppressed on a global scale. Until power and money are equally held between the sexes, we cannot allow the lines to become blurred.