Woman in cafe, is this a new form of space invading?

[Bahhhhhumbug]

I know this has been done to death, the usual thing of people standing too close in queues, sitting next to you in an empty carriage etc etc. but this was a new one on me yesterday and l can't fathom why it bothered me so much, but here goes.
Went for a coffee whilst shopping yesterday and as it was late some of the popular window tables were free so l went and sat at one watching out the window as you do.
A man came and sat at the next window table to me and was then joined by a woman both middle aged, fiftyish. She took off her coat and turned to me and rather bruskly asked me if the seat behind her at my table (directly opposite me) was taken. I said no and to help yourself, resist g temptation to mimic her brusk tone. With that she put her coat with big fur collar around the back of the chair, turned round and started sorting out her coffee etc, leaving me sat at my table opposite her coat and partly blocking my view outh window.
Wtf? Just to clarify these tables have four seats around them so l had three empty she had two but they are small tables and only realistically seat three comfortably.

[ravenmum]

Maybe her coat was a bit damp so she thought she'd air it?
Wondering what innocent things I have done in the past that have secretly left others fuming at me or complaining about me as a CF online.

[Oldraver]

I work in a cafe that is supposed to seat 300 but reckon half the seats are taken up by people spreading.

Recently two women came in and sat on a decent sized six table, then proceeded to spread their coats over the chairs on the next table of six.

So 12 spaces taken by 2 people

[cinnamontoast]

Aargh! Why is anyone struggling to understand what is wrong with this behaviour? Putting her coat on a chair at a different table from the one where she was sitting meant that the woman was preventing other people from using that chair, even though she didn't need it herself. It was also effectively an invasion of the OP's space. I would have been annoyed too. Basically, one chair per person is the rule, but she was using two chairs at two different tables.

[BerylStreep]

I brazened it out, sat down on one of the remaining chairs and ate my breakfast while they gave me funny looks. That's really got me giggling AvocaosBeforeMortgages.

I bet they hadn't seen your laptop at all, which makes you sitting beside them for breakfast even more

[SoupDragon]

one chair per person is the rule

Only if the cafe is busy, otherwise I bet pretty much everyone puts their coat etc on another chair.

[cinnamontoast]

Yes, but you'd use a chair at your own table, Soup. Otherwise it's the equivalent of manspreading.

[SoupDragon]

*Otherwise it's the equivalent of

It really isn't. Unless she put it on the OP's actual chair.

[blueskiesandforests]

SoupDragon not a chair at somebody else's table though!

Its like putting your bag on a seat next to you on the train being just about OK if the train is really quiet, but putting your bag on a seat next someone else then choosing to sit on the vacant bank of 2 across the aisle, bag free!

[cinnamontoast]

I once met my DH in the pub, where he was with an old schoolfriend I hadn't met before. The schoolfriend had his feet up on the only free chair. He was wearing Jesus sandals and, on a hot day, his feet were noticeably smelly. He removed his feet for me, I sat down rather gingerly, and he immediately put his feet back on the chair! I was gobsmacked - but not to gobsmacked to tell him to remove them.

In our brief ensuing conversation he revealed that he had voted UKIP. I have never let DH forget about either the feet or the UKIP voting. To be fair, he agrees that both are deal breakers.

[cinnamontoast]

Blueskies, yes exactly!

[Strugglingtodomybest]

Why is anyone struggling to understand what is wrong with this behaviour?

Because we don't see it as wrong? Slightly strange at most, but not wrong.

Would it have been better (right?) If she'd asked OP if she was using the chair and then when OP said no, turning the chair round so it became one of the chairs at her table?

[cinnamontoast]

Struggling: yes.

[TwoDrifters]

AvocadosBeforeMortgages That really made me laugh and reminded me of the excellent Douglas Adams’ “cookie story”:

“This actually did happen to a real person, and the real person is me. I had gone to catch a train. This was April 1976, in Cambridge, U.K. I was a bit early for the train. I’d gotten the time of the train wrong. I went to get myself a newspaper to do the crossword, and a cup of coffee and a packet of cookies. I went and sat at a table. I want you to picture the scene. It’s very important that you get this very clear in your mind. Here’s the table, newspaper, cup of coffee, packet of cookies. There’s a guy sitting opposite me, perfectly ordinary-looking guy wearing a business suit, carrying a briefcase. It didn’t look like he was going to do anything weird. What he did was this: he suddenly leaned across, picked up the packet of cookies, tore it open, took one out, and ate it.

Now this, I have to say, is the sort of thing the British are very bad at dealing with. There’s nothing in our background, upbringing, or education that teaches you how to deal with someone who in broad daylight has just stolen your cookies. You know what would happen if this had been South Central Los Angeles. There would have very quickly been gunfire, helicopters coming in, CNN, you know… But in the end, I did what any red-blooded Englishman would do: I ignored it. And I stared at the newspaper, took a sip of coffee, tried to do a clue in the newspaper, couldn’t do anything, and thought, What am I going to do?

In the end I thought Nothing for it, I’ll just have to go for it, and I tried very hard not to notice the fact that the packet was already mysteriously opened. I took out a cookie for myself. I thought, That settled him. But it hadn’t because a moment or two later he did it again. He took another cookie. Having not mentioned it the first time, it was somehow even harder to raise the subject the second time around. “Excuse me, I couldn’t help but notice…” I mean, it doesn’t really work.

We went through the whole packet like this. When I say the whole packet, I mean there were only about eight cookies, but it felt like a lifetime. He took one, I took one, he took one, I took one. Finally, when we got to the end, he stood up and walked away. Well, we exchanged meaningful looks, then he walked away, and I breathed a sigh of relief and sat back.

A moment or two later the train was coming in, so I tossed back the rest of my coffee, stood up, picked up the newspaper, and underneath the newspaper were my cookies. The thing I like particularly about this story is the sensation that somewhere in England there has been wandering around for the last quarter-century a perfectly ordinary guy who’s had the same exact story, only he doesn’t have the punch line”.

[cuppycakey]

I don't get it?

How could you not see out the window properly because there was a coat on the back of a chair?

This is a complete non event that would barely have registered with me.

[blueskiesandforests]

Strugglingtodomybest yes that would have been better, because she would not have been in the OP's space, but as she had 2 free chairs at her own table it would have been better still to use one of her own!

If somebody settles at another table and asks you if a chair at yours is free you expect them to take it, not put their stuff on it.

People pretending not to understand this are either trying to style out some kind of "do I look bovvered?" attitude, or must also be wandering about invading people's space, "borrowing" other people's stuff, perching, perhaps, on other people's desks or reading their books/ screens over their shoulders, oblivious to why it is intrusive and annoying and really very odd to get into other people's personal space if it doesn't actually cause them pain or cost them money!

Twodrifters I like that story too :o

[MargoLovebutter]

Oh wow TwoDrifters I had no idea that the cookie packet story was a Douglas Adam's one!

I've heard numerous people tell it, using slightly different versions and always thought it must be an urban legend!

On the other hand, I don't think the brusque coat woman in OP's story did anything wrong. If there was an empty chair available in a cafe I was in and the cafe wasn't heaving, I'd probably hang my coat over the back of it too! There should be more wall hooks in cafes, bars & restaurants!

[blueskiesandforests]

MargoLovebutter if there were 2 empty chairs at your cafe table would you hang your coat on the back of a chair at a different table, occupied by a stranger, though.

I think people are overlooking the two free chairs at the woman's own table, and also lacking any kind of visual imagination if they can't see why this is so bloody weird, and why, indeed, the big winter coat with a fur collar could indeed intrude annoyingly on a view that a chair with a high wrought iron or similar mostly see through back would not obstruct particularly.

[blueskiesandforests]

This does actually make me wonder:

When you (generic, anyone reading) read a description of a scene, as in the opening post on this thread, do you "see" the scene clearly in your head immediately?

The description in the OP is good enough to do this from, but either a lot of people don't see the scene in their head and hence are genuinely struggling to understand what was going on, or we're all seeing it in our heads, but the people who don't find the behaviour bloody odd are "seeing" something different in their mind's eye to the scene those who agree its a very strange thing to do see...

[MargoLovebutter]

blueskiesandforests if the table was adjacent to mine and I just had to turn around to put the coat on it, then yes. I hate hanging a long coat on the back of my own chair, as it either ends up with the lower portion on the dirty floor, or you have to fold it and then lean on it and it gets crumpled, so the ideal solution for me would be to hang it over the back of a nearby chair. I wouldn't think of the chairs in "territorial" terms as in belonging to another table, I'd just think of it as a coat hanger. I'm super polite though, so if I'd be unlikely to obstruct someone's view with a coat, but yes, I'd definitely use an empty chair regardless of "whose" table it was at.

[Asgoodasarest]

It’s weird. You put your belongings with the table you’re sitting at, not a table nearby with a stranger sitting at it. Obviously I doubt you’re going to be kept awake at night over it, but I’d be bemused too.

[Strugglingtodomybest]

cinnamontoast thanks for answering. Can you explain why it makes a difference to you which way the chair is facing, or is it the same as Blueskies?

[BirthdayCakes]

That's a great story TwoDrifters

There were spare seats at the coat womans table - why didn't she use those?! Why put at someone else's table?!

[londonrach]

Coat was really alive and wanted to share ops table and view

[halfwitpicker]

When you (generic, anyone reading) read a description of a scene, as in the opening post on this thread, do you "see" the scene clearly in your head immediately?


^

Yes. I picture it.

[PhilomenaButterfly]

MsLexic you're an inspiration to us all.