Mother of the groom .. wedding seating plan

[Watershipdrown]

Sorry but this may turn into an essay as I don’t want to drip feed.
Ds is getting married in 3 months time and was discussing the seating plan with his ds asking where she would like to sit etc. It came out that I am apparently sitting on the top table with exh next to me, as parents of the groom. Exh and I have been divorced for 23 years and I have been remarried to a wonderful man for 20 years. I haven’t spoken to exh in probably 15 years after police involvement for harassing me and making threats. My dh raised my 3 children as his own and we also have a son together. He has always treated the children as if they were his own, providing everything that they needed and wanted, while exh couldn’t even be bothered to keep up contact with them, despite living 20 mins drive away from us. Exh did not contribute anything in terms of maintenance for them, he did not turn up for visits and at one point told my dh to legally adopt them so that he would not be responsible for any money that they might need, all the while demanding a say in ridiculous things such as if they needed a haircut, I was expected to ask permission. Exh was controlling and physically and emotionally abusive and I was honestly relieved that he couldn’t be bothered to keep up contact, however I never tried to stop him, even though I probably should have. He was never threatening to the children but they witnessed some of his dv towards me. There was very little contact until ds was over 18 and could go into a pub and drink alcohol. They have built a shaky relationship now and I’m fine with that.
I am really hurt that dh has been relegated to a table with some other relatives and I really do not want to sit next to my exh at all. Dh is unaware of the seating plan and I can’t bring myself to tell him. I know how much he will be hurt and shocked as they have always had a great relationship.
I have tried to speak to ds about this and explain how uncomfortable this will be, but he’s adamant that it’s traditional and how they (Dil and ds) want it. I have said I would be fine not being on the top table, or exh and his partner being on it and dh and me perhaps at the other end but he will not change the plans. Dd has now fallen out with ds over this and told him just how wrong and incredibly inconsiderate it is to treat dh this way.
I know it’s their wedding and they can do what they like, seat people wherever they want etc. I know how hard it is to seat everyone and please everyone, but I do not want to be seated apart from dh to sit next to a man that made my life a living hell for years. AIBU ?

You and your DH should be sat together. And far far away from your exH. Your DS and DIL need to be told the truth - exactly what happened and the huge role your DH has had in his upbringing. To deliberately exclude your DH by making him sit elsewhere and to deliberately hurt you by making you sit beside your abuser is completely unacceptable. Your son is an adult, he should know what a fucking abusive bastard his father was to you.

It was a few pages ago but I agree with everything ShatnersWig says. I'm completely shocked by some of the responses here. OP YADNBU and I hope that your DS and DIL see sense.

This might not be helpful, it's a long thread and things have moved on somewhat but there is a 'traditional' seating plan for when grooms parents are divorced too - MIL and PIL are divorced and remarried so we used it. It goes like this:

Maid of honour - Grooms stepfather - Grooms mum - bridges father - bridge - groom - brides mother - grooms father - grooms step mother - best man

This is not on.
Can't imagine anyone would think it is.
When a close family member got married, the bride did invite her violent father, who she'd never known growing up but reconnected recently.
I was a bit surprise he attended.
But her DM was dignified throughout.
They kept well out each other's way and didn't acknowledge each other.
Having a big church helped.
I personally wouldn't have invited him.
It's a NO from me.

Thank you Raspberry but I'm even more shocked that since I wrote what I wrote there have been more posters suggesting the OP just sucks this up.

Disclaimer - I've never suffered domestic abuse and I'm also a man. But you don't need to have suffered domestic abuse to grasp instantly why this situation is so totally unacceptable. Anyone of either sex who simply thinks she should suck this up is, quite honestly, a fucking moron who needs to take a long hard look at themselves.

It may well be, based on the OP's most recent posting, that her son is not aware of the extent of his father's abuse towards his mother (which in some respects I could understand why). But I am sure his sister has filled in the blanks when she told him why this was so many shades of wrong.

I still think it's sad that his biological father is taking precedence over his dad (and I choose that word, not stepdad) and that bit MAY have to be sucked up (although it would make me, if I was his dad, feel differently about the relationship in future). But there is only the one acceptable answer to the other issue - mum/OP sits with her DH on another table; if the groom refuses, then quite frankly, I'd go to the church to see it and then fuck off home. I suspect his sister may feel likewise.

OP, you’re bang in the right and ignore all the shitstirrers on here saying saying otherwise.

Simply explain that, due to his abuse of you in the past, you will not be sitting next to him at the wedding. If you want to go farther and say you’ll only sit on the same table as your DH then fair enough to you too. If they insist or push on knowing what abuse then tell them. Everyone’s an adult now, and they can all take ge truth.

My DM suffered DV from my father. I didn't witness it however knew it was going on as I heard it. He left when I was 6 and my DM despite remarrying when I was 11 always slept with a large knife under her pillow and still does. My step dad was a lovely man too. She never ever got over the abuse she suffered at the hands of my dad. If I ever got married and told her that she would be sitting at he top table beside my dad she would have refused to attend the wedding. Quite right too, but I would never have done that to my mum, ever. Those of you commenting that its only one day, the abuse was years ago have no idea of the long term impact DV has on an individual never mind then being told to sit beside the abuser years later. The anxiety and fear doesn't leave you....

From FlindersKeepers
you've said that the police were involved, do you still have any of the paperwork or stuff from solicitors and the like?
Because having them with you when you go to speak to them both will help them to see how serious it was and make it all a bit more "real".

I think this is a very good idea. You have clearly been a wonderful mother and tried to shield your ds from the worst. He now needs to know the full extent of what this monster put you through. Tell them both EVERYTHING. Were you hospitalised, police involvement etc. They need to understand that what they are suggesting is utterly disgusting and this treatment of you is appalling which I am sure (hope?) they will see once you have laid everything in the open for them. They are currently taking you utterly for granted and not considering your feelings at all. Given that you have not made any demands on them at all with regards to their wedding (and goodness knows we hear some horror stories on these threads about demanding parents) the very least they could do is move the fucking chairs around. They are being shitty to your poor dh too.

You're doing the right thing. This is not about your DH. Your son is free to treat him as he wishes, disappointing and heart breaking though it is.

Your conversation does not have to be long and detailed. You want me to sit next to a man who used to beat me? Say it clearly but succinctly. He used to beat you. It makes you feel physically ill to think of being near him. You want them to have a beautiful day but you cannot sit next to him, not for a moment. You don't even need to suggest solutions. That way you can leave it open for them. Say you'll sit wherever else they'd like, with pretty much anyone else, but it's not an option yo sit next to a man who has repeatedly beaten you.

I'm wondering if the abusive ex will even turn up? He's not had a good track record so far, has he? Then again, free meal, possibly a few free drinks. might be worth getting out of bed for.
He's doubtless been playing down / glossing over the details of his version of events to DS otherwise DS would surely never want to see him again! And if OP has never wanted to reopen her wounds to tell DS chapter and verse, then you can see how this has arisen.
Hoping OP finds the strength to tell her side as fully as she needs to. Abusive ex may then find he is no longer even invited.
No way should she have to sit next to him.

I’d imagine he’d turn up for this kind of all glory and no work parenting event. They usually do.

They being completely useless and objectively horrible ‘fathers’. I’m pretty sure mine would turn up (and want to sit at the top table in place of my stepdad) if (a) I were getting married and (b) was stupid enough to invite a man I haven’t seen for nearly 20 years because he’s a total arsehole.

I think you need to tell your ds more about what happened. It’s obviously unreasonable that you be expected to sit next to your abusive ex. But that’s knowing that he was abusive.
My guess is that your ex has told your ds some warped tales of what happened, making himself the victim and you and your dh the villains, combined that with you not telling your side to protect your ds, and your ds probably has no idea what he’s asking.

You need to be completely honest with him, you’ll also be doing your ds a favour in helping him understand what your ex is really like, so that he can protect himself from him.

If after he knows the truth he still refuses to change the plan, you would not be unreasonable to refuse to go.

they want, bride and groom in the middle then exh sat next to ds, then me, then best man, then bridesmaid and brides df, dm ...

@Watershipdrown how well do you know the best man? I'm just wondering if you could ask him quietly if he's prepared to swap seats with you, so there'd be very little difference in what people would "see" but you'd at least have somebody else between yourself and exH

And FWIW I think you sound very fair and reasonable. No doubt you'd have gone with what's wanted if it had been an amicable divorce, but not - understandably - in view of the abuse

I think you need to take a lot of the things you've written on here, put it together, and hand it to your son if he doesn't 'understand' how horrible this situation is for you.

You're not being petty. You got yourself and your children out of a terrible situation ... and you did it so well, he doesn't even realise how bad it was for you. You were amazing. And your DH took on your children and treated them as his own. He was amazing.

Your son is old enough to know the truth now. And I think he needs to.

^^ this absolutely

I'm sorry to sat but it looks like father like son. Your DS doesn't care about your boundaries just like your EX didn't.

Good luck, I hope your ds sees sense without you having to impart too much detail, but if you have to then do.

This is awful. If it were for genuine following tradition reasons as many people have said its your DS’s FIL you’d be sitting next to. This is a non traditional and frankly mean alternative, people often go non traditional to be accommodating and caring not to be awkward. Also because it isn’t traditional I’d have expected this to be run by you not something for you to discover. If it were any other configuration I’d say you’d have to go with it but suck up your DH not being on the same table. I’m cross on your behalf but also struggling with what could be the alternative OP, so sorry. I hope you can still have a lovely day and good relationships with your DS & DIL

I think that you might want to point out to your son that you haven’t told your husband. This is you protecting your son again because you know that it will damage his relationship with his stepfather who has been so kind for him. It might help to point out to him some examples of this. Tell your son that it will be for him to tell your partner but know no matter how much they care for each other it will damage their relationship because he has been inconsiderate of the pain caused towards you, his stepfather’s wife, and ungrateful for the love and care he has been given. It’s a very sad situation.

DS I'd like to chat about the wedding. I would never cause a fuss over nothing but your plan is to seat me next to my abuser. I as your mother have kept details from you, which perhaps I shouldn't have done and now is not the time to discuss it. I absolutely want you to have your father there if it makes you happy, but I do not want to sit directly next to him. I am also worried about your stepdad's feelings. He loves you like you are his own blood. I think knowing that he will be completely separate from the rest of us may devastate him. I am happy to sit on the table with dh or for any other solution you may have eg the traditional set-up where I would be seated next to your future fIL. I do not wish to cause you and sil to be any extra stress, that is the last thing I'd want. I will of course attend your wedding no matter what, but I think you need to know that asking me to sit next to your father will be one of the hardest things I'll ever have to do.

I wouldn’t go, seriously

"I really don't like the level of "It's their day tow the line" weddings have reached. Yes it's their day but its an important day for everyone who loves them too. Sidelining or making uncomfortable for the sake of being "proper" is poor behaviour imo."

This ^

You do not owe you son an explanation, or anyone for that matter. Nor do you need to "demand" anything. Simply tell your him that due to things that occurred during your marriage you will not now, or ever, sit next to your ExH and they may make whatever arrangement they want to, but your position will not change. Then take a step back. Let your DD fill in any blanks.

Good luck OP.
I hope you are able to take some strength from the overwhelming majority of posters reassuring you about what you need to do.
I hope it is resolved and that you are able to enjoy what ought to be a lovely and special day in your life.

I’d imagine he’d turn up for this kind of all glory and no work parenting event. They usually do. < this 100%

Yes the goady fuckers have had a field day on this thread. I hope others are also reporting because I'm mighty fed up of threads derailed by all this bollock swinging.

I really hope your DS sees sense OP.

Well they're wrong on tradition anyway!

The brides father sits next to the bride and the grooms mother next to him and the reverse on the grooms side!

Plus etiquette rules ALWAYS place people's safety first.

Personally I'd be asking exactly WHY he doesn't want his father sitting next to brides mother - because by the sound of things I suspect it's because he doesn't totally trust his father to behave decently to her! Especially with drink involved.

Their seating plan bears NO relation whatsoever to any traditional etiquette.

You say next to brides father or with dp at a "normal" table, but you are absolutely not being unreasonable NOT to agree to sit next to ABUSIVE exh.

Does future DIL FULLY know the situation with exh? I suspect not and that if she did SHE'D be handing him his arse if she's a halfway decent person!

And actually if she DOES know and still thinks this is acceptable I'd be seriously reconsidering attending at all in your position. Is DS trying to avoid telling her this?

"I would sit them down and say you really want me to sit next to the man that beat me?" Yep - BOTH of them!

Wtf is wrong with ds he thinks this is AT ALL acceptable?!

Returning2thesceneofthecrimes post is excellent.

Rosablue makes a good point about you need to check what's happening about the ceremony seating too.

I'm also wondering what your exh hand in this is!!

"Given that he's about to become a married man, he's old enough to be told exactly what your marriage was like." Definitely! I'd have told him before now!

Given op's dds reaction (and ds's CONTINUED refusal to compromise) I don't believe ds doesn't at least have an inkling of what's gone on! So yes, he's being a spoilt, selfish brat groomzilla!

Swingofthings, lose2stone and similarly IGNORANT OF THE EFFECTS OF DV posters - this is NOT the normal acrimony/bickering of divorced parents he ABUSED her! I am a divorcee and will possibly be seated next to ex at dds wedding. We "only" split due to infidelity, not ideal but definitely a situation I can suck it up - I have nothing to fear from my ex he has never and never would hurt me physically.

This is a COMPLETELY different scenario. Would YOU want to have to sit and smile and "make nice" for several hours with someone who's thumped you?! Of course not and if you claim otherwise you're lying!

Abuser apologists!!!! TOTALLY AGREE!

"OP has said she isnt afraid of her ex any longer and would be uncomfortable but would do it if she had to." She's also said she's experiencing anxiety symptoms (that indicate she may have PTSD around this mans actions) abuse victims tend to be more vulnerable to abuse/manipulation by others too. I took those comments to be ones made by a woman possibly feeling (unnecessarily) guilty that her DS is in this position in the first place, doesn't want to think badly of DS and so is minimising/denying the true feelings/reality. Frankly I find your posts on this thread victim shaming, abuser apologist bollocks!