Slight confrontation with dog owner today

[ReecesPeaces]

DH and I do not own a dog but every couple of weeks we will take a friend's dog for a walk in the local countryside. She is a gorgeous, gentle dog and very well trained. A small cockapoo. The owners encourage us to let her off the lead when she is out and away from roads etc and most of the other local dog owners do the same.

Today we were walking through the countryside area and there were plenty of other people there, most had dogs and most dogs were off the lead. The dog we walk generally approaches other dogs her size in a friendly playful way and shies away from bigger dogs, she usually jumps up at me of a big dog comes near and I scoop her up and we carry on. Anyway we saw a woman with four dogs approaching, three small ones and one rottweiler. I was wary of the rottweiler as a family member used to have one which was very aggressive. All of this woman's dogs were off the lead.

Before I could get our dog on the lead she ran up to the smaller ones who started growling and chasing her aggressively. All four dogs then started chasing ours round and round, the Rottweiler wasn't being aggressive but two of the smaller ones were and trying to bite our dog (at this point the owner of he other dogs was going "it's fine it's fine) who ran up to me and thankfully I managed to pick her up and the other dogs then lost interest.

The owner started shouting at me and DH slightly aggressively saying "I said it was fine!" We hadn't said anything at all at this point we had just been calling our dog to us. The owner was angry we had picked ours up and kept saying "I told you it was fine! That's the worst thing you can do to pick a dog up in that situation, I'm an expert!" We walked away as I just wanted to get away from her and thought she was being confrontational.

Is this the norm for dog walking in public spaces or was this woman in the wrong? It puts me off getting a dog permanently as there was a moment when I really felt something awful could have happened.

Point to where I was angry, please.

It is rude. Go to any trainer and they will say it is rude.

Keep your dog under control. Mine is not interested in rude dogs bothering him.

Just came across that way because of the extreme comparison you used, being completely incomparable and belittling/minimising sexual assault on women as being akin to a dog running toward another. Can't you see that? I just didn't think it was a very reasonable thing to say so had assumed you must be quite angry or something to speak that way.

It was just an example, you don’t need to extrapolate any emotion from it.

You do what you want with your dog. I’ve got a yorkie and if I’m not happy about how another dog has approached him I’ll pick him up. It’s NONE of the other dogs owners business whether you pick your dog up or not.

Case in point: I was walking my dog whilst 8 months pregnant, a Doberman came racing up to him (Doberman off the lead my dog on the lead). I picked my dog up and the Doberman knocked me over trying to jump and get to him. The other owner then told me off and said it was all my fault for picking my dog up, he didn’t give a shit his dog had just knocked me over. I gave him both barrels and so did another random lady walking her dog. Hopefully he won’t be such a bellend in future.

Greysgirl that'll happen if you don't heed dogs instincts. Many could have told you this was likely and also that you risk making your ddog nervy, fearful, and anxious, and god knows there are already far too many unhappy ddogs out there.

You increased the chances of this outcome, you are working with animals here and expect them to behave like humans somehow.

No, anything knocking over anyone is out of order,but you do increase the instincts in the dog to do exactly that.

Comparing a woman being sexually assaulted, with a dog running toward another dog???

Well no that dog shouldn’t have run up to you. But you would’ve been a hell of a lot less likely to be knocked over if you didn’t pick yours up.
And all this worry over big dogs and little dogs? My wolfhound has a wonderful pal. A jack Russell cross. They have become great buddies and play wonderful games of chase. So sweet. They adore each other.
Dogs shouldn’t race up to strange dogs.
Dog owners shouldn’t be rude to each other.
But being fearful of dogs approaching and swooping in to pick them up really doesn’t help.

smother it was an example because if’s the same victim blamey approach. It’s up to the owner of the shy dog to tell them to fuck off, and it’s up to women to police men. At no point did I compare the two in terms of severity or seriousness, so don’t put words in my mouth.

If she was an expert, her dog's would have been better socialised and not have been after your dog. She was unreasonable.

Smotheroffive my dog is perfectly happy and friendly thank you. I did nothing wrong by picking him up. He’s a small dog and a dog 10 times his size was bounding forwards him barking. If he had grabbed my dog by the neck one shake and he could have broke his neck. And my dog was cowering in anticipation of an assault so yes I picked him up to protect him.

I didn't say it, so how can I possibly have put words into your mouth? - you can't blame me for your extreme comparison.

I have to disagree, it completely isn't up to women to police men!

Lack of socialisation and owner fear are rife sadly and it impedes digs natural expression (no matter the size)

*dogs

Greysgirl, that's the perfect example of my post up thread. You actually put yourself and potentially your unborn child in danger - yet you feel totally justified. Preservation of self (and baby) should actually be higher on the list

Dog trainer hat on..

If you cannot recall your dog from other dogs, you have no business having a dog off lead.

Your dog may be friendly, you have NO idea what the dog they are approaching is like, if you can recall and have your dog stay with you whilst you ask the other owners, fine. If you cannot do this, use a long line and harness rather than off lead.

As far as picking smaller dogs up - unless you HAVE to do it, I'd advise not, because it really can trigger some dogs 'get it/grab it' reaction, and make the picked up dog feel trapped and threatened, which escalates a situation no end.

HOWEVER if you have a tiny dog and a big dog is going to splat it and injure it even by just being playful.. pick 'em up. Just be aware that you may be jumped on/knocked down/bitten if it does make the situation worse!

smother where the hell did I say women should police men ffs.

“dog’s natural expression” - what? Being a rude little turd?

Bufferingkisses so I should have just let my dog get attacked and stood by and done nothing? Obviously that’s not going to happen.

I was always told never to pick your dog up during an altercation, because lots dogs will follow their instincts and jump up after it, potentially knocking you to the ground or causing you injury in an attempt to get the other dog.

I have a neighbour with a small terrier type dog (I don't know the exact breed) and whenever he's walking it he sees another dog, he picks it up and the dog just growls and snaps and lunges to get down.

Most dogs don't enjoy being picked up - it's not normal for them to be babied and cuddled like that. Unfortunately I think it's a case of our instinct to pick up a defenceless animal (ie a baby or toddler) being the opposite of a dogs in this kind of situation.

But I have to ask, people who pick up their dogs, what would you do if you had a Giant breed dog? Or a dog that hated being swooped up off the floor? I have to say if I tried to pick my beagle up he would be most unimpressed!

But nothing you have said suggested the Dobie was going to attack. It was running. That’s rude but not necessarily aggressive. It barked? Many dogs do out of sheer excitement. (Not mine!)
Your dog was scared. You’ve reinforced that by picking him up. And got knocked over. Shouldn’t have happened but your response made it more likely.

If you cannot recall your dog from other dogs, you have no business having a dog off lead - so this would be addressed to the woman whose dogs went after the OP dog I presume?

I can't see why this is still being debated, you'll often meet people out with several dogs they can't control and if your dog gets within 10 feet their dogs will behave aggressively and I can guarantee they'll say its your fault.

If you cannot recall your dog from other dogs, you have no business having a dog off lead.

I admit I really struggle with this. How are you supposed to practise recall around strange dogs without letting your dog off the lead? Lots of dogs will recall perfectly on a long-line because they know they can't get to the dog in question, but let them off and they'll take the chance to explore/play no matter what treats you have.

As a trainer, how do you propose people practise recall amongst other dogs without the use of a long-line? Mine comes back perfectly on a long-line or if there's nobody else around, but he finds it difficult around other dogs because the chance to play is far more exciting than whatever treats I have on me! Some advice on this would be really welcome @WiddlinDiddlin

I live in a very dog-friendly area so it's not really a problem on a day-to-day basis because we know everyone on the beach but I can see it being problematic in the future.

I have to say, I do get a bit confused about how dogs have not learned as puppies how to approach other dogs. All of mine (and many I meet) do the polite thing if they want to say hello, approach to a few feet, then wait for the other dog to acknowledge it, if they come over they do the doggy handshake, if they want to play they do the bow and tail wag! If none of the above occurs my dog heads off (and at speed if there's a growl). This is nothing I do - its taught by other dogs.

Where dogs are nervous of other dogs I think the onus is on the owner to take the dog away from the situation (my PIL dog was attacked by a much larger dog so if we see one we pop him on the lead and keep walking confidently onwards). If you do have a persistent follower (unlikely from a friendly dog who wants a playmate not prey to chase), telling the owner your dog is scared of other dogs so can they recall it, or distract the other dog, if its body language is telling you this would be ok until the owner does recall them (or more likely the dog gets bored).

I do wonder if a lot of the problems we see are down to breeding (and breeding conditions) and very early socialisation, esp as its estimated up to 85% of the dogs in this country come from puppy farms.

I also think there is a problem with people being frightened to let puppies off their leads early on (when they will stick close by) so that they can learn how to socialise in those first precious 16/18 weeks from other dogs (who are usually quick to carefully put a puppy in its place - unfortunately this is often met with cries of horror by indignant puppy owners - a quick nip from an older dog will usually be quite beneficial to over enthusiastic puppies). There's bizarrely a lot of emphasis on getting dogs socialisation with people/the hoover/hairdryer etc, not so much with other older dogs - the most people normally do is socialise them with other equally clueless puppies. Mainly because this is to help us rather than helping the puppy develop.

I do think there is a growing number of people who have dogs who do not understand them though. They pick unsuitable breeds because they look cute but cannot give them the exercise and stimulation they need (eg Labradors and cockerpoos who are more cocker than poo, both of which are often acquired as "EASY DOGS" when in actual fact it is difficult to cater to their needs to keep them happy). Yes friendly dogs but need a lot of stimulation and work to stop them bouncing like a rubber ball - the owners not understanding that not all dogs have the same characters and we need to work with dogs breed characteristics (which are often the result of having been bred over centuries to do a particular job -don't be surprise if a puppy breed bred to rat chases your kids hand if it darts towards it - centuries have bred that dog to chase small quick moving objects, or than gundog runs after the football falling from the sky like a shot pheasant - all these things will need careful training to curtail) and their personalities (which are just as individual and difficult to change as a humans).

smother where the hell did I say women should police men ffs

IAmAlwaysLikeThis Please stop with your shitty nastiness! You said it yesterday at 12:46, I have copied and pasted your words here....

...and it’s up to women to police men

Yes deadbudgie

More ddogs being treated like human babies.
More owners buying highly charged and badly bred crosses with no idea of what they've got.

More fearful owners, not letting their dpups off lead early enough with well socialised older ddogs.

I see a lot more owners with ddogs never let off-lead.

I am also, yes, very saddened to see so many distressed and highly anxious ddogs out blaming other ddogs running free wanting them all to stop going anywhere their ddog when out in the open, because it distresses their ddog.

I also blame a lot of rescue centres fr inappropriately rehoming ddogs to new owners with basic and sometimes not even that, experience of handling ddogs, never mind damaged, tortured, and often dangerous ddogs, with zero socialisation.

None of the above is new, but it is far more common, as is ddog owners unable to manage their ddogs, some of them very responsibly and some very irresponsibly.