Slight confrontation with dog owner today

[ReecesPeaces]

DH and I do not own a dog but every couple of weeks we will take a friend's dog for a walk in the local countryside. She is a gorgeous, gentle dog and very well trained. A small cockapoo. The owners encourage us to let her off the lead when she is out and away from roads etc and most of the other local dog owners do the same.

Today we were walking through the countryside area and there were plenty of other people there, most had dogs and most dogs were off the lead. The dog we walk generally approaches other dogs her size in a friendly playful way and shies away from bigger dogs, she usually jumps up at me of a big dog comes near and I scoop her up and we carry on. Anyway we saw a woman with four dogs approaching, three small ones and one rottweiler. I was wary of the rottweiler as a family member used to have one which was very aggressive. All of this woman's dogs were off the lead.

Before I could get our dog on the lead she ran up to the smaller ones who started growling and chasing her aggressively. All four dogs then started chasing ours round and round, the Rottweiler wasn't being aggressive but two of the smaller ones were and trying to bite our dog (at this point the owner of he other dogs was going "it's fine it's fine) who ran up to me and thankfully I managed to pick her up and the other dogs then lost interest.

The owner started shouting at me and DH slightly aggressively saying "I said it was fine!" We hadn't said anything at all at this point we had just been calling our dog to us. The owner was angry we had picked ours up and kept saying "I told you it was fine! That's the worst thing you can do to pick a dog up in that situation, I'm an expert!" We walked away as I just wanted to get away from her and thought she was being confrontational.

Is this the norm for dog walking in public spaces or was this woman in the wrong? It puts me off getting a dog permanently as there was a moment when I really felt something awful could have happened.

Every single one of the dogs in this situation should have been on a lead. If the dog won’t come to your heal on command in every situation, they are not safe to be off lead.

"had tended to assume that as their spaniel was off lead it was ok for mine to approach"

While those people sound horrible, I don't know why people assume this.

My dog is off-lead because he likes to run around by himself, sniff, not be constrained etc. It isn't an invitation to play. If a dog runs up to him, he growls to let them know to back off and then turns and continues whatever he was doing.

The number of times people have said he's aggressive/horrible/rude etc astounds me. Running up when my dog shows no signs of interest is rude!

I don’t think you should let her off the lead if you can’t guarantee that she will come back as soon as you call her.

He was unreasonably defensive.

You were unreasonable in letting you're dig run up to theirs. You should have recalled and if necessary put on the lead before yours even noticed them. If you wait until your dog starts to go that way, it's potentially too late to recall (depending on your relationship with dog and dog's recall).

I really don't appreciate other puerile letting their dog run up to mine, especially not if they notice it, and yell "it's fine, he only wants to play!!" ... because my dog isn't happy about being approached and having a stranger's nose poked up her arse, and IS likely to growl, snap or bite if the other dog ignores her body language. She'd never approach another dog and isn't bothered by other dogs passing quite close if they're not bothering her. Every dog owner should check in with the other dog owner before letting them bounce up to greet each other.

But they don’t live where they walk? So they don’t own the place?
Regardless. We live in a lovely rural area. Some idiots but they tend to stay away as Wolfie girl is so big.

"But they don’t live where they walk? So they don’t own the place?"

I've seen plenty of dogs that walk habitually in the same place that definitely think it is 'their' territory.

Bad owners not in control. Or giving the dog the enrichment they deserve
Not sensible to suggest all dogs are the same.

wolfie WHERE did I suggest that?

Besides which WHY the dogs are like they are is not really my concern. How it affects my dog is. What am I supposed to do? Chuck a Kong at random dogs so they leave my dog alone?

You really seem to be making up your own theories of what I've said instead of reading what I've said.

As you've probably gathered OP picking the dog up is the worst thing you can do, it gives the dog a superiority complex and does more harm.

The dog will also pick up on your signals so you guys not intentionally reacting to big dogs but being more rigid etc the dog will realise

Dogs also naturally establish a order when they meet others which often involves growling especially if you have a alpha dog.

Lastly as a big dog owner, small dogs running up to my dog are the bain of my life as if my dog runs either through fear/wanting to get away or joins the game of chase many time it has ends with the small dog owners having a go as my dog is quick (greyhound) can't stop easily so often will bowl a dog over/crash into them or she gets excited so barks at them.

Being able to control the dog and call it back so she doesn't run over to others is key.

"Dogs also naturally establish a order when they meet others which often involves growling especially if you have a alpha dog."

An alpha dog? That hasn't been a thing for at least 30 years.

There is no 'order'. There are polite dogs and rude dogs, friendly dogs and shy dogs.

Mine would be terrified if yours ran up to them. My big Rotties are big softies and would be terrified. But that would then fuel their protective nature and they would growl and defend.

It's because of ppl like the OP that I use a harness and a halti and two leads on both of them so my dogs don't get falsely accused. It's heartbreaking having to do this. But ppl like the OP leave me no choice. I do it for them as I'm terrified they'd be branded dangerous for defending themselves.

Never let a dog randomly run up to another!

Another who thinks long line or on lead. Walking on lead is not necessarily a low quality walk; especially if your dog reallly is only 6ft away as you say. My leads are all
Six foot, police adjustable leads. Don’t use a retractable lead whatever you do though! Lethal.

I agree, don’t pick your dog up. Though there is never a need for any dog walker to be shouting in a threatening manner at another.

I walk five big hunting breed dogs together, on lead: they are an established pack so they don’t go off lead together- because they’d be chasing rabbits in Gretna green by the time I caught them alll, and because they would be very intimidating. I understand d pack theory has been debunked, and I don’t agree with it a la cesar, but I know my own hounds and there’s definitely a hierarchy.

So would the best thing be to put her on a lead at the sign of any approaching dog? In this case she would never be off the lead

Yep. And if that's a major problem for you, then walk some place and/or some time with fewer other dogs. I walk in less popular locations very early in the morning just to give my dog a chance to run off lead without bumping into any other dogs. Not worth the aggro otherwise.

There are most definitely definitely "alpha". I am alpha , then my eldest female then the male puppy. It's ingrained in them and it works.

@IAmAlwaysLikeThis afraid there is an order and alpha behaviour its why dogs who have just met will show submissive behaviour to the other. Alpha females will also mark a lot more.
Typical submissive behaviour is licking the face of another dog, rolling onto belly a whimper etc.
Just because you're not picking up on the body language and saying there are rude dogs doesn't mean that's not what is happening.

Twiglet/soso, go and do some research ffs. You're talking bullshit.

I agree with PP that you should not allow your dog to approach other dogs unless given a nod.

My dog is dog aggressive he is far worse on a lead, however when we walk him he will stay by our heels, so we could keep him off the lead, but we can't do this due to "friendly dogs."

We have a lot in place now to insure he does get some off the lead time, but even on lead with his fuck off jacket I still get the "its ok s/he is friendly" line on at least a weekly basis

I own big dominant breeds. So yeah I've done my research. Rotties are amazing dogs but there is a hierarchy and if you aren't alpha then you are in big trouble.

I can assure you that their body language makes it quite clear that there is a hierarchy.

soso, well go and do some research not from the 80s. Because all that alpha/beta/dominance shite was discredited years ago, including by the guy who originally wrote it.

I hope your theory never ends badly. I'm not taking that risk. I've owned large breeds my whole life. Without it it would be chaos. As it stands they are lovable happy dogs.

soso I don't have a theory. You're the one taking the risk by subscribing to stuff that isn't true.

I have a large ten year old rottie who begs to differ lol

Yeah? Well last time I checked 'rotties' aren't actually able to explain and analyse behaviour.

I walk my extremely friendly cockerpoo off lead all the time.
If I see an owner call their dog to them when they see us approach or if they have it on a lead I will call mine back in case theirs is nervous. If they have they it running free and either they or the dog doesn’t show any concern then I let mine continue off lead (body language can be hard to read though especially in certain breeds so if I’m doubt I call her back).
She’s a larger version of her type and very fast and agile to outrun other dogs and will run straight back to me should the other dog give off any signals that she’s not sure of, aggression, nervousness etc so I’m confident that she will not do anything to upset any one else’s dog and will stay away if they do show such behaviours.
It is the persons responsibility to keep control of the dogs in their care and they should have any aggressive dogs on a lead in public areas.
Although it is not recommended that you pick up a dog for a number of reasons in a scenario like the one you described on the other hand if you are unsure or nervous it is human instinct to do this and you cannot be blamed.
Especially when it’s not your own dog which in my opinion would elevate your anxiety in this situation. I would feel awful having to explain even the smallest scratch or bite to a friend who left their pet in my care as opposed to simply checking my own dog over and taking whatever action I deem necessary.
My advice would be to learn from this experience and ensure if you see dogs in the distance approaching to call yours back close to you until you can tell whether they are likely to be friendly but otherwise don’t let this scare get to you as the dog will only pick up on your anxiety and this could affect its behaviour.
Be sceptical of all the self professed experts out there as well. From my personal experience (as someone with numerous qualifications and experience working with animals and still feels they always have more learn) you can never prepare for every scenario and it’s very easy to get the licenses and meet requirements needed to set yourself up as a ‘professional’ in the industry. At the end of the day paying out for a license doesn’t mean shit!

I was walking my elderly staff 13 yrs old at the time and coming back up the lane behind the street next to ours. Suddenly I heard the sound of metal moving I turned just in time to see 2 enormous heads coming from under a corigated sheet the was put over a drive entrance. Out he came the most massive pony sized Great Dane I have ever seen. My old girl could hold her own back in the day but she started shivering as he trotted over focused on her. He twisted round and round and sniffing the back of her neck she was snorting and her eyes were terrified I thought I was abou to see my dog die. My husband said if any dog has a go let her go as she could defend her self and l would not get bitten but I couldn't let go. The other Great Dane stayed where she was but he lost interest and slowly walked up the lane. I phoned my husband as the old girl was shaking and he came to get her I then went around the front and knocked on the owners door she was very flustered and thanked me and went after him. I was worried about that massive thing getting run over and phoned the police they came and she came outside my house he was nowhere to be found he was missing to the next day he had been spotted 2 miles away. 4 days later my husband was walking our old girl down the trail And from the other way my husband seen the same dog off lead been a pest to another dog totally out of control of lead she had the other Great Dane with her and 2 american bulls. My husband lost his cool and shouted at her to keep her dogs under control to which she said he's really gentle, husband then replied he may be but he's bloody intimidating. Old girl lived another 6 months and just short of her 14th birthday she died one night in her sleep a great way for an old dog to go the vet said he thought it was a heart attack . We do miss her but are not getting another.