Slight confrontation with dog owner today

[ReecesPeaces]

DH and I do not own a dog but every couple of weeks we will take a friend's dog for a walk in the local countryside. She is a gorgeous, gentle dog and very well trained. A small cockapoo. The owners encourage us to let her off the lead when she is out and away from roads etc and most of the other local dog owners do the same.

Today we were walking through the countryside area and there were plenty of other people there, most had dogs and most dogs were off the lead. The dog we walk generally approaches other dogs her size in a friendly playful way and shies away from bigger dogs, she usually jumps up at me of a big dog comes near and I scoop her up and we carry on. Anyway we saw a woman with four dogs approaching, three small ones and one rottweiler. I was wary of the rottweiler as a family member used to have one which was very aggressive. All of this woman's dogs were off the lead.

Before I could get our dog on the lead she ran up to the smaller ones who started growling and chasing her aggressively. All four dogs then started chasing ours round and round, the Rottweiler wasn't being aggressive but two of the smaller ones were and trying to bite our dog (at this point the owner of he other dogs was going "it's fine it's fine) who ran up to me and thankfully I managed to pick her up and the other dogs then lost interest.

The owner started shouting at me and DH slightly aggressively saying "I said it was fine!" We hadn't said anything at all at this point we had just been calling our dog to us. The owner was angry we had picked ours up and kept saying "I told you it was fine! That's the worst thing you can do to pick a dog up in that situation, I'm an expert!" We walked away as I just wanted to get away from her and thought she was being confrontational.

Is this the norm for dog walking in public spaces or was this woman in the wrong? It puts me off getting a dog permanently as there was a moment when I really felt something awful could have happened.

@Wolfiefan she was definitely scared. The other dogs were aggressively chasing her growling and snarling and she ran up to me and was whimpering. It wasn't a fun friendly chase with a bit of play fighting.

I get that our dog shouldn't run up to others especially when there are always going to be some unpredictable dogs out and about. I don't know how to rectify this without really reducing the quality of her walks, as basically she would have to be on a lead all the time. It's a tricky one.

Most dogs are fine interacting with others but if the other dog doesn’t look interested or the owner indicates the other dog doesn’t like it, eg by shouting theirs back or putting them on a lead you need to immediately recall yours. I wouldn’t let mine approach a group of 3or more dogs as I think this would be seen as quite aggressive behaviour and likely to end badly

A longline. As stated.
She ran up to them. That’s rude. You can’t blame them for chasing her off!

Also having had an elderly dog who was deaf, 'friendly' dogs were the bane of our existence. I had to get quite rude with people sometimes who let their dogs run up and jump all over her when she clearly wasn't happy about it, even when she was wearing a high vis jacket with big letters saying she was deaf and needed space. I'm sure they grumbled about me asking them to get their 'oh don't worry, he's friendly!' dogs under control (probably on Mumsnet!) but we had a right to enjoy our walks too.

I haven't seen any other dogs being walked on longlines though- don't they just get tangled up? Would it be better to invest in better training? You say your dog obeys verbal commands about which dogs they're allowed the allowance approach.

I too have a dog that doesn't like other dogs coming up to him. He was attacked as a pup and it affected him ever since making him a nervy. He just wants to stay with me and play ball which is fine. I always try and avoid other dogs and move to other areas of the park. It really frustrates me when dogs run up to him and their owners are far away in the distance. Sometimes he might growl at them to go away. If it's more than one dog he is noticeably scared. There is no way I could not let him of lead, he needs the exercise and we keep to ourselves. Just wish other dog owners would keep their dogs closet to them and notice what's going on.

We meet a blind dog @Celebelly. A friendly bouncy dog would terrify the life out of her.

@ReecesPeaces with smaller dogs the idea is you let them trail and stand on them if the dog starts to run off. Wouldn’t use one on my Wolfie though.

One of the risks of picking the dog up is your personal safety. Say, for the sake of argument, the rottie in this scenario really did go after your dog, you pick the dog up and suddenly you have an out of control rottie jumping up you to get at your dog. The chance of you being hurt in that situation is huge - not because the dog intends to hurt you but because you are putting yourself between them and their target. Your personal safety always has to be in your mind somewhere.

I agree with others, good dog behaviour is to approach quietly and cautiously, not go bounding up. Many dogs react badly to that however friendly you think your dog is being. Recall when you see a dog, teach her to be calm and only let her play once friendly relations are established at close quarters - where both owners are able to intervene if there is an issue.

Sounds like your dog provoked the response. Ours doesn’t like little dogs approaching and ‘being friendly’. He finds it intimidating despite his bigger size. I get quite cross if owners let theirs approach ours and don’t recall if they see ours getting tense. We consciously avoid unknown dogs and busy places but we still get idiots telling us it’s fine, their dog is friendly. They then get all uppity when ours barks loudly, having had enough of being pestered.

Ok thanks everyone for the advice- I think recall and teaching her to approach more cautiously is going to be the way forward.

Last time we took her out she was minding her own business and two huge Great Danes approaches and one was a bit aggressive and the owners were nowhere to be seen- after what felt like ages they emerged from round a corner full of apologies.

The whole thing makes me unsure about owning a dog as even if you have a well behaved and well trained dog you don't know what other people's dogs are going to be like or how responsible the owners are going to be. How do you guard against owners who aren't paying attention and have badly trained dogs? Or am I being a bit on the nervous side here...

You’re being a bit on the nervous side. Choose where you walk carefully.
Avoid dogs on lead (especially yellow leads. Need space.)
Ensure recall is good.

My bouncy cocker spaniel ran ahead to a couple a few weeks ago. This couple had one Rottweiler type cross on a lead and a spaniel running off lead. My spaniel ran up to their dogs and the woman of the couple turned round and screamed at me " silly fat cow". I was rather taken aback. the man then let the Rottweiler type of the lead and screamed in my face that if his dog attacked mine it would be my f***g fault. I was mortified and had tended to assume that as their spaniel was off lead it was ok for mine to approach. it was horrible. Maybe I was at fault , it really shook me up. I have another dog ( I walk them separately) who is usually on the lead as she can be snappy and numerous other dog walkers have dogs who approach her. I don't go around screaming at them. Some people are just horrible, it's just a good job most are understanding.

If you're anywhere near North Wiltshire come out for a big walk with us. I run a dog walking network, it's the most amazing job in the world. Dog social dynamics are fascinating and we work with them every day.

My dog is overly friendly and generally completely deaf to other dog body language. He’s walked on a long line so he can range at 10m or I can have him on 6in if necessary.

The lead takes a bit of practice but it’s a necessity at the moment

And don't get me started on why I think dog owners should pass a test and get a licence in exactly the same way as car drivers...

Don't allow your dog to approach dogs it doesn't know without checking out body language from the dog or checking with the owner first. And she is right, you shouldn't have picked her up.
Walk on and call her. If she doesn't come, put her on a lead.

If the dog under your care likes to run at other dogs, you should keep it on a lead.

Not all dogs welcome this and for some it can be a real problem. Your dog might be ok in that situation but other people's dogs are not. I have the same issue with owners who think it's ok for their dogs to run at my dog phobic child on the basis that "oh he's just friendly he won't hurt"

If another person ran up to you and gave you a hug or even just started talking to you, you wouldn't think "oh he's just being friendly"

Keep your friend's damned dog on a damned lead and tell the owners to do the same.

One of mine has fear aggression and would be terrified; she either snaps or goes into a trembling fit when a boisterous dog runs up. Another has absolutely no social skills whatsoever. They are both medium sized rescues and are walked on leads. I wouldn't be happy with any friendly dog running up.

How do you guard against owners who aren't paying attention and have badly trained dogs? Or am I being a bit on the nervous side here...

I think you are being nervous. If we aren't sure on a dog or owner, we pop our boy on a lead until we pass. And he has solid recall, but sometimes other dogs won't go away even though they aren't sure of him. E.g. we see a collie a lot that tries to herd him. It stalks and the owner doesn't call it back. After being followed for ages, my boy will try to play. The dog doesn't react but also looks uncomfortable with it. So now if I see the same collie I put my dog on a lead.

The thing is, dogs make noises that people mistake for aggression in play. A high pitched throaty growl can be a playful one. Bouncing and barking is play behaviour. It's all about body language, not just noises. Eye, tail, ear positioning, etc.

If you get a dog, go to group training classes so you can get more confident. Make sure you are seeing a positive reinforcement trainer.

Why is it fine? Because she says Its fine its fine its fine over and over? As in she's happy with the situation, so you need to do as she says? Fuck that. If you want to pick your dog up pick it up, and what's more this was your friend's dog imagine if it had been attacked!!

You mention about getting a dog yourself and yes sadly arseholes like this are everywhere in life, just the same as you get performing parenting at your toddler's pre-school, or entitled twats pushing in a queue. That's all this behaviour is. Its nothing to do with you being nervous or needing to know all about dog behaviour, its about this woman being a loud mouth bully. She was in the wrong.

I like what a poster upthread said about "defensive" dog walking. These so called "professionals" (bullies if they can get away with it) are everywhere, you just need to learn to read it a bit more, bit like reading the road if you are driving (similar sort of me me me mentality there too!)

Definitely call the dog back if it runs towards other dogs and if you see someone like her approaching again veer off in another direction. When you get your own dog you can go to training classes and do recall, walk to heel, avoid certain types etc!

Re my other comment, obviously some growls and barks are also warnings. Normally coupled with a couple of other calming signals from the dog. Research it if unsure.

It really is an absolute minefield this dog walking ! I just scan ahead for other dogs and try to avoid.

"No. Some of you were discussing how you would turn in a different direction if you saw a group of dogs.
There’s a lot of misunderstanding here about dog behaviour. Dominance is rubbish. Pack theory has been debunked. "

I think you've read a little bit here and a little bit there and come up with your own theory. Dogs that live in one place together will often protect one another/disregard other dogs' signals because they see themselves as 'owning' that place. Just because 'pack theory' as such is nonsense doesn't make that not true.

If I see a big group of dogs off-leash, I walk away. You also advised the OP to do similar (choose where you walk carefully). I live in a place with lots of untrained, unsocialised dogs and ignorant owners. When I see a group of big dogs, I know what is going to happen (all of them rushing up with the owner doing nothing to stop it.) I do what I need to do to protect my dog. If you choose not to, because your dog is less nervous, good for you. My dog HATES being rushed at, so I avoid that situation.

'I'm an expert'?! On what, how to be unable to recall his dog? Mine didn't like a dog that ran up to him today, I called him off, he immediately recalled, as did the other dog when the owner realised that her dog was annoying mine.