To be upset with Royal Mail? I've lost £350!

[ALittleCrisp]

I purchase a phone on eBay but it hasn't arrived. I know the seller is a good one because he has 1000 of positive reviews and it's PayPal so my money is secure if things go wrong.

However, Royal Mail say they've delivered my phone when they have not. They sent an email to say they'd be delivering, and then they never delivered. But, I got another email that same evening saying it had been delivered

What do I do?

Royal Mail website says to contact the seller but this is obviously not the sellers fault. I don't want to cause a rift with someone on eBay for £350, it's a lot of money and I feel terrible since it wasn't there fault.

AIBU to be annoyed at Royal Mail?

Just get in touch with seller and let them sort either with RM or by providing anothr etc if they are a trader they will be used to it - just check with neighbours first

It's not signed for so that doesn't mean anything

It doesn't need to be signed for, yes it's best practice for expensive items, but Ebay only demand signatures for items over £750.

"For “item not received” cases, if sellers post the item within their stated handling time and provide a valid proof of delivery for the item, eBay is likely to decide in their favour.

“Proof of delivery” is online documentation from a postal company that includes all of the following:

• A status of “delivered” (or equivalent in the country to which the item was delivered) and the date of delivery.

• The recipient’s address, showing at least the city/county or postcode (or international equivalent).

• Signature Confirmation for transactions that total £750 or more."

The crux of the matter op has not got her parcel, so needs to go through e bay or PayPal. It could be a cock up with RM, that they delivered to the wrong number or address. They often do that, I have had wrong items delivered to me, that is 36 of another street not mine.

Paypal disputes normally favour the buyer, probably your best bet to get your money back

Yes, but the seller is responsible for getting her item to her, and if the seller's carrier has lost the item the seller must either claim on insurance or swallow the financial loss if that's not possible.

.

One major cock up from RM, is when the postman delivered a parcel for 36 of a road and different name for an address in Bedford, and I live in Milton Keynes, I quickly pointed it out to the postie. Some less than honest person might have accepted the parcel and kept it.

Yes, but the seller is responsible for getting her item to her

That is true. But according to how eBay and Paypal operate, the seller's responsibility is done once there's an online confirmation of "Delivered". In most cases if eBay or Paypal can see that, then they close the matter in the seller's favour. (Sometimes they step outside their own rules so it is worth the OP pursuing this.)

It is important to distinguish between what is legally right and what eBay and Paypal actually do. These things are different.

Why have you waited from the 28th December for 10 days to see this as an issue? I've got to say, if I sold an expensive item, could see by the tracking that it had been delivered, and the seller told me that actually it hadn't 10 days later, I would be very suspicious. It's not like it's a pair of jeans, I don't know anybody who isn't watching the mail when they are expecting a parcel like that!

Because unfortunately, because of circumstances out of my control, I was away for a little under a week

Check the houses further down than you'd think to as well. I had a present scheduled for delivery on 20th December. It said delivered but it hadn't been. Turns out they'd delivered it 9 doors down and I only found out when they showed up at my door on new years eve

OP - I 100% guarantee the Delivery Office can check the coordinates of where the PDA scanned the barcode as delivered - this is standard procedure and is what DOM's (Delivery Office Managers) use as their first port of call when a formal complaint comes in (as well as speaking to the postie). If you only spoke to the postie on the front desk in the Callers Office, they may not know this. Ask to speak to a manager, or, preferably, log it as a formal complaint. Also, the PDAs are gradually being upgraded to have the facility to take photos of where parcels are left in the safeplace, but this is work in progress so may not be switched on in your region yet. Again, logging as a formal complaint will found this out.

Just contact e bay, or Paypal and tell them the situation, and see what they say. You haven't got your item, RM are known to make cockups, this might be one of them. Though it has been delivered, I think RM would have to prove that it was delivered to the right address.

Because unfortunately, because of circumstances out of my control, I was away for a little under a week 

Ah. Was anyone home?

If you were away for a week isn't it likely that during that time a neighbour did take it in and has forgotten or one person in a house has taken it and the person you spoke to didn't know.

Tell the neighbours that RM are checking delivery coordinates and it might suddenly turn up.

I had this before Christmas, the tracking showed my elderly dads special delivery Xmas parcel was attempted delivered & that he'd been notified to collect from the P.O. He'd had no card & was in all day in Xmas eve waiting for it, so it was bull.

The card was finally put through his door on the 27th, then he could collect it, which was annoying as I'd paid extra to make sure it was there on time. It contained perishables, & also he is elderly & disabled & shouldn't have to be collecting parcels I've paid over the odd fir, so that he didn't blood have too 🤬

The parcel had been left with a local convenience store/post office counter & marked as delivered, instead of the usual pick up point. Basically a lazy assed delivery guy who wanted to get off early on Xmas eve.

I'm guessing this parcel could still turn up

Because unfortunately, because of circumstances out of my control, I was away for a little under a week

Ah i'm sorry to hear you were away, I would get in touch with the sorting office again and insist on GPS information. It might not be that the postie remembers delivering it as it was so long ago, but they should definitely provide you with more information than they have.

@ALittleCrisp Are you any closer to sorting this out and getting a refund?

Ice Unfortunately not, I haven't had a response from the seller yet when I replied that I'd already checked with neighbours etc.

Ebay say they will step in if it isn't resolved by 13th Jan

Ok that is good, that you have gone through E bay. Just wait and see what they do. It sounds like an RM cock up, delivering to the wrong address, and the seller being tight, not paying for special delivery.

Aer I just hope the seller can afford to swallow the loss

Op, have you checked it's not cleverly hidden in an outhouse/shed/outside alcove?

We have found parcels behind our wheelie bins, in a paint bucket in our front porch, under the front wheel of our car (?)/ in our hanging basket.

Did the postie hide it somewhere for you that isnt obvious?

Ebay say they will step in if it isn't resolved by 13th Jan

You do know this means that unless you can get irrefutable evidence from the sorting office to say it was not delivered to your address that they will side with the seller on the 13th. You really need to go down to the sorting office and ask for the GPS information as Ice suggested.

The Seller has tracking which shows the item has been delivered, if they enter that information into the case on Ebay the case will be closed in their favour.

I just hope the seller can afford to swallow the loss

I hadn't realised you'd opened a case on Ebay. Is the tracking number already shown on the ebay case? If so it might be you who is out of pocket, as the seller has provided proof it was delivered.

I know you say you haven't received it, but Ebay are only interested in the tracking which to them shows the opposite. Whilst I agree 100% that the seller should have used a signed for method, Ebay won't count that against them as they only demand a signature for sales over £750.

I just hope the seller can afford to swallow the loss

I wouldn't worry about this. Whether they realise it or not, they have, in effect being 'self insuring' so instead of paying a higher price for a fully insured, tracked delivery, ie Royal Mail Special Delivery, they have used a cheaper, inferior service, which could leave them open to covering losses.

So their postage costs are lower, but they may have to replace the odd lost item. As long as the rate of loss is below a certain level, this is cheaper for them overall. Lots of volume business sellers operate like this.

However, in this case, if Royal Mail cannot prove that the item has been delivered to the correct address, they should refund as a gesture of goodwill, even if they are not bound to do so by the T&Cs of the delivery contract. Although it is likely that the mechanism for this is that RM should refund the seller and then the seller should refund the OP, or send another phone.

they have used a cheaper, inferior service, which could leave them open to covering losses.

That doesn't matter though, the item had tracking information which is all that is required by Ebay for items under £750.

if Royal Mail cannot prove that the item has been delivered to the correct address, they should refund as a gesture of goodwill,

Genuine question, why should they do this? The seller has sent the item tracked, the items shows as delivered why would they then send another item when in their eyes, Ebays eyes and the eyes of Royal Mail the item is at the OPs house?

As I said above unless the Op can find irrefutable evidence from Royal Mail that the parcel was not delivered to her property then the case will side with the Seller. It doesn't matter that the service didn't require a signature, it was tracked and is showing as delivered.