To be upset with Royal Mail? I've lost £350!

[ALittleCrisp]

I purchase a phone on eBay but it hasn't arrived. I know the seller is a good one because he has 1000 of positive reviews and it's PayPal so my money is secure if things go wrong.

However, Royal Mail say they've delivered my phone when they have not. They sent an email to say they'd be delivering, and then they never delivered. But, I got another email that same evening saying it had been delivered

What do I do?

Royal Mail website says to contact the seller but this is obviously not the sellers fault. I don't want to cause a rift with someone on eBay for £350, it's a lot of money and I feel terrible since it wasn't there fault.

AIBU to be annoyed at Royal Mail?

I thought the rule of thumb was Ebay usually take the side of the buyer?

In the majority of cases yes they do, it's very rare they side with a seller at all. However imagine the uproar if Ebay just refunded the buyer, even when the tracking states an item has been delivered. There would be no way for a seller to ever prove an item had been received by the buyer. Sure you could prove it had arrived at the address but not to the actual person.

but they cant prove it theres no signaturei thought ebay states u have to send high end items special delivery-how much was the delivery charge op?

Just a thought OP. Is the address on your Paypal account up to date?

It is the sellers problem tbh, which stupid person sends an item of that value and not send it by Special Delivery, so that it is tracked all the way and signed for. I would contact the seller and explain, they then have to contact RM, as they sent it. If after a week it has not been resolved, I would contact E bay, and get your money back.

It is not op fault that RM have cocked up, and that the seller did not have the common sense to send the item by special delivery to save a few pounds.

I’ve also had a fake tracking number given to me by the seller , they were scamming me and I got my money back via PayPal

Like ichifanny has said, it could be a scam, I would message the seller, give them a week to sort it out, if not go through Paypal or E bay.

Although it's the seller's responsibility, which means that the OP can seek to recover their money from the seller, for example through the small claims court, this doesn't mean that eBay or Paypal will help this happen. eBay and Paypal have their own internal processes that have little to do with the legal rights of people like the OP.

This is what eBay say about whether sellers have to refund:

www.ebay.co.uk/pages/help/seller-protection-faq.html
(scroll down to How are sellers protected from losing a case?)

Generally, eBay and Paypal are interested in the seller providing an online proof of delivery. And that's it. There only needs to be a signature (Signature Confirmation) "for transactions that total £750 or more".

When it comes to disputes on eBay or Paypal, the key point to understand is that you're dealing with the processes of those two companies. And those processes are not concerned with what's fair or what the relevant legal situation is, for example consumer rights law.

The best way to handle this OP is to contact your local Royal Mail in the ways suggested above, and also to contact the seller to let them know there's a problem. I wouldn't open a case just yet, for the moment I'd keep the seller on side. (That this problem has happened provides no indication that the seller is a scammer.) For eBay "you have up to 30 days from the delivery date, or estimated delivery date for items not received" to open a case and for Paypal the time period is much longer.

If you need to, open a case. You would have to choose opening either with eBay or with Paypal, you can't have an open case existing with both. There are advantages/disadvantages to each but I can't recall which would be best for you. You can sometimes get surprisingly good advice from the Discussion Boards - The eBay Community.

If all else fails there is the possibility of trying to make a Chargeback claim but that will depend on the way in which the transaction involved a credit card of yours. The online confirmation of "Delivered" might be a problem in doing this.

OP needs to first register the item has not been received, eBay give the seller leeway in case it turns up late. And then open a case. But she shouldn’t delay or it looks dodgy.

I’d open the case with a PayPal personally, they’ve been good at getting my money back in tricky situations.

I've had problems with delivery before, even when it was sent "signed for". One time I ordered a pair of Timberlake boots off eBay for £90 I got a notification saying it had been delivered and signed for and the signature was not that of anyone in my household and nobody was in at the time of delivery anyway. Got home and the post man had wrote on the back of a letter that the parcel was in my cupboard in the communal stairs... parcel wasn't there, cupboard has no lock and is always slightly ajar. He had signed for the parcel himself and left it, thinking it would be better for me rather than having to go collect from depot. My parcel was stolen (I live in a slightly dodgy area)
More recently I ordered a cotbed online with a reputable company, supposed to deliver on the Friday but it got delayed until the Monday. Monday I got an email saying it would be delivered between a certain time. Then at the time of estimated delivery I had an email stating it had been delivered, delivery note in the email said "left on porch" ... I don't have a porch I live in a block of 18 flats. Parcel, which is very large, is nowhere to be seen. I got refunded for both after taking it up with royal mail/ sender company. Just keep on at them! You may get somewhere.

Call Royal Mail help line.
I've had a message saying something has been delivered and they've admitted to me the postman marked it as such when he shouldn't have, but it was at the local depot.
Got delivered the next day.

When it comes to disputes on eBay or Paypal, the key point to understand is that you're dealing with the processes of those two companies. And those processes are not concerned with what's fair or what the relevant legal situation is, for example consumer rights law

I couldn't have put it better myself

I'd also add that, IME, how they'll deal with sellers depends on what their sales volume is. It's very noticeable that the kind of practices which would get a "little seller" instantly banned are all too often tolerated from those who, to put it bluntly, are worth much more to ebay/paypal

It's very noticeable that the kind of practices which would get a "little seller" instantly banned are all too often tolerated from those who, to put it bluntly, are worth much more to ebay/paypal

Agreed, the sheer volume some sell negates any negative consequences. Where as one negative low star feedback to a smaller seller, has a huge consequences.

At the end of the day it's all about money for Ebay.

It should of been sent via tracked if this is the case it would of been signed for and royal mail should have proof of the signature. Contact seller and ask for tracking number you can then go onto royal mail site input said number and signiture( if obtained) will be shown.

It's down to the seller. If they were fool enough to send a £350 phone not using a signed for service then they deserve to lose out.

I have an update - I told seller what's happened and the response I got a few hours ago now was -

"Hi we've spoken to RM and they confirmed delivery, you need to check with neighbours please, thank you - Customer services"

I replied back that I'd already checked with neighbours. None of them have it, or at least none say they do

Is this the first time you've contacted them?

I'd be suspicious if I was them and got contacted on the 6th for something due to be delivered on the 28th...

I'd respond and say you've already checked with neighbours and the sorting office (if that's true).

Did the seller send it by special delivery. If so presumably the Royal Mail need to be able to say where they delivered it and produce a signature?

I would e mail the seller, and tell them that it has not been delivered, and with an item of that value, they should have had special delivery. If no joy, I would contact E bay and tell them your situation.

Put it all in single syllable sentences on your reply. Ebay read these messages and use them to decide on cases.

So send one saying
you sent a high value item via a non-signed for service
It has not been delivered to me
I have checked with neighbours and depot. It has not been delivered to me (once more for effect!)
You as seller were responsible for using a signed for method. This has not happened.

(can you check the old listing and see what that said re delivery - take screenshots)

etc etc

Royal Mail did that to me too and it was in fact delivered to a nearby post office and they told me it had been delivered. I wouldn’t mind but I was at home and they didn’t even call

I already responded and said I'd spoken to neighbours already (one of the first things I did). Hermes etc often leave stuff with random people/and/or places so I had a proper nose.

Sat the item was sent 24/48 hour delivery tracked (but no signature required). When RM emailed to say they would be delivering that day, they said specially in the email "this item does not require a signature".

I would call the local sorting office, or your local Post Office, if it is not there, it is up to the seller to deal with it, if you are not satisfied, go through Paypal or E bay. I guess when you order an expensive item through e bay, message the seller to say that you would like it to be delivered via Special delivery due to the cost of the item. That is what I do.

Just a thought
Is you paypal address correct?

Op have you checked with the sorting office / post office. Lots of posters have said this is where there parcels have been when marked as delivered but they've not got them.