AIBU To think the Family Court is not fit for purpose?

[Notwiththeseknees]

The Judge has seen fit to name Ellie Yarrow, the mother who has fled with her three year old son. Reading the heartbreaking letter from Ellie that her sister posted on Facebook, AIBU to think that this secretive court who are responsible for some dreadful decisions, is no longer fit for purpose.

www.facebook.com/1311698241/posts/10216464513147988/

@NeverTwerkNaked - I was questioned by x barrister on my MH too - implying that it didnot exist - the “questioning” only stopped because I ran out the court after saying if I say I’ve been suicidal does this make it real. The same judge that allowed this had previously seen my MH support worker as I had to take her to court on the morning of my hearing to get hearing adjourned as judge did not believe me in telephone hearing when i said I was not well enough to attend.

I’m sure you all think you could do a better job but the reality is that it’s extremly difficult to legislate people’s emotions and behaviours behind closed doors. They are right to focus solely on the child and their welfare/rights. Family courts are a cat fight, not a legal forum, and across the board the mums and dads are liars, abusers and/or self interested in every case. Either one or both parties. When both parties are reasonable it doesn’t end up in court. So good luck trying to legislate a bunch of liars with little or no proof other than the word of invested people. It’s a nightmare.

People make terrible choices for who to have children with and people are vulnerable through no fault of their own. And I feel desperately sorry for those mums and dads who fall into that category and end up in court. But the court can’t just go on gut feeling of who that is. It would lead to horrific injustices. So the child’s welfare and the child’s rights being the consideration of proceedings is the only way I suspect, them being the innocent party in their grown-ups mess.

Seems entirely reasonable to publicly identify kidnappers.

So good luck trying to legislate a bunch of liars with little or no proof other than the word of invested people. It’s a nightmare.

Well, that's the nature of the job then, isn't it? You can't just throw your hands up with a passive aggressive war cry of, "could you do a better job?".

The system needs to be robust enough that the same evidence is called for no matter which court the case is heard in or which judge is listening. It needs to be able to demonstrate that everyone in the systems is on a similar footing with reagerd to resources - how that's achieved without legal aid is beyond me. And it must be clear that some parties are acting maliciously and must do further work to ensure that they haven't become another arm of abuse.

And if you cannot achieve that then you should bloody well say so because from your own account it seems as productive to toss a bloody coin.

To reply to a PP, no I don't know the lady or her family. There was just something that made me want to look a little deeper. But this isn't an isolated incident. The Family Courts are a kafkaesque nightmare.

In my opinion, for something as important as custody, the cases should be heard by s panel of three judges - same as a magistrates court, same as the Court of Appeal. That way it is less likely that an individual prejudice can prevail or the 'old boy network' can take precedence.

Some family court hearings are actually heard by magistrates. There are so many cases going through the court that it's not even feasible to have them all heard by one judge, let alone three. Where on earth would the money come from? And some judges are women, you know.

To those saying some people make terrible choices with whom they have kids. It has no relevance here. We are talking of the courts being used by abusers to carry on their abuse. Victim blaming is not relevant.

Should we only help those whose husband or partner started to abuse them after 10 years together but not those who began to be abused after 6 months or 1 year, as they should have chosen better??

The courts need overhauling. And she could have changed her name by deed poll legally and be in hiding.

My friend did this years ago to escape abusive parents and brother and the police helped her and she moved to a new area with new name. Her case never went to court as she was in immediate danger and had to go into hiding.

Someone may well be helping Ellie, even law enforcement.

Another local too.

This man used controlling ehaviour throughout the relationship if her letter is to be believed, and I do believe her as well. What she described is all too familiar behaviour of controlling men,

Ask why a 38yr old man would want a relationship with an 18 yet old woman.. There was a financial imbalance and power imbalance from Day 1. At 18 she would have been easy to control.

I hope she stays gone.Anything to prevent this child from growing into an abusing arsehole like his father,

My feeling is she must using false details. She will know her child needs medical input from time to time and the only way she could do this is by using a false name,

joanmcc she’s his mother and not a kidnapper

I think maybe the journalists have a better understanding than first appears- why else would they be constantly including her age and his if not to draw attention to that dynamic?

This is what happens when Legal Aid is stripped and no longer available to vulnerable parties. Between that and various others cuts to the criminal legal system, there are miserable abuses being carried out in our name.

This.

How many women (and their children) are murdered by their partners/ex-partners? Even after there being clear proof of intent to harm, and the police being aware and the woman begging for help? Fucking SHIT LOADS. That is how many.

Surely the whole point of women's refuges is that someone can escape with their child and be safe?

Why should that be held against someone?

Apparently this mother did have legal aid?

floribunda18, people who escape to refuges aren't normally completely out of communication: therefore if, for instance, court orders for access are made, the expectation is that they will be complied with and they can be enforced. Children in refuges can be assumed to be safe, and people in refuges can also take part fully in Family Court proceedings. The problem in this case is that the mother isn't in a refuge, and has disappeared so no-one knows whether the child is safe

when was she last seen and is it possible to verify the authenticity of that letter? When women and small babies/children disappear like this, they rarely stay away for more than a few weeks before being found. She hasn’t used her phone or bank cards since she left. It’s been 6 months. Where is she and how is she supporting herself?

Oh shit, Papaya, I hope the thing you are not saying is wrong

Papaya...That's why they have had to say they are concerned. No hint of them anywhere.

Gone underground is what the media are saying so might have changed name or left the country.

I gather some family members are facing charges of perjury so I guess theymay know where she is and are not saying.

I wasn't trying to victim blame those who pick the wrong partner, I feel really really sorry for them because there are no guarantees to picking an non-abusive partner and to not be able to protect your child from them must be fucking terrifying.

I also feel sad reading the dilemmas on here from women who should LTB but are scared of their DC having alone time with them.

the letter contains a lot of very personal, very damning stuff about her ex and is handwritten with a particular writing style (content, not the writing) so I assume they've verified it's authenticity in some way? It's just very very unusual for someone to go off radar in this way for 6 months without being seen or heard. Especially with a child.

Mumsnet are we allowed to paste the letter???

It’s frightening how he threatened her with “people he knew” (Iv taken that in a violent way) and now she’s disappeared. Yes she’s left a letter, but her family have been writing hoe much they miss them, how they hope she’s safe etc. I hope she is safe and he hasn’t done something to her!

Does the child becoming a ward of the court mean that as soon as she's found the child will be taken into protective custody / care?

I don't think you can paste the letter in case it discloses details the court has not allowed to be released and also because it will be the lday's copyright (if she wrote it).

Terrible story. I hope she and the child are safe and well.
Sadly the Family Courts are not fit for purpose. This is something that Women’s Aid have been campaigning about for decades. There is guidance for judges on dealing with cases involving violence but it is widely ignored. Children have been killed during contact with violent fathers. We had seven years of going through the Family Courts with a violent, drug addict, alcoholic ex. Plenty of evidence of his violence, his drugs, his stalking. They didn’t care - really. Mind blowing.
Yes, going on the run is absolutely the wrong thing to do in a sane society. Sadly this isn’t a description of the UK Courts. To keep her child safe this mother needs to run and keep on running. Good luck to her.

I agree the family court isn’t fit for purpose for all sorts of reasons (I’m a barrister who has seen its failings first hand), however I’m not sure that this is the fault of the court.

Firstly, she seems to think if she stayed her son might go to foster care. This is simply incorrect. These were private law proceedings not involving the local authority. I am pretty certain a high court judge did not tell her her child might go to foster care.

Secondly the court hadn’t made its decision. We don’t know what arrangements for the child might have been ordered. She was suggesting 50/50 and the court may well have gone with that but never got the chance.

I hope she and her son are ok, wherever they are.