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AIBU?

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Original poster

AIBU to think there should not be equal split

190 replies

Thinker03 · 04/01/2019 00:21

Ok so DH dad passed away 2 years ago. He owned a flat which he purchased with my DH and his sister, DH never lived there but was quite young when he was put on the mortgage purely to help his dad out. The sister always has and still does live in the house. When the dad was alive he paid his mortgage ALONE. No help from the sister on the mortgage or one of the other now adult siblings who occupies a room rent free.

For background info there's 5 Adult siblings including my DH.

When his dad died as house was joint tenancy it passed straight to DH and his sister. Despite the fact that there is 5 Adult siblings all together because they all have their own lives and "are so broke" DH and his sister have been going half on the mortgage. The plan is to sell when market improves asap.

So as not to drip feed info. DH and I have 2 kids we want to have more but canr yet as we are too stretched for money and too stressed. We have struggled to pay our bills our mortgage plus half of mortgage on Dads old house which is now technically DH and his sister house. DH has never lived in house. Also for added info we won't be going on holiday this year as we can no longer afford it. DH has been doing overtime at work.

By the way the dad always spoke about wanting his kids to split the house if anything happened to him but no he didn't have a will and couldn't of really stipulated such anyway due to the way the house was set up a long time ago. (Joint tenancy)

Other than the sister DH is going halves on mortgage with there is also an adult brother living in the house unemployed and rent free. As he is "Just trying to get on feet"

There are also 2 other siblings who have kids of their own and like I said "So broke" and have never offered to help pay the mortgage in light of our situation.

Recently they have been talks of the house being sold and the fairest way to split the house. There's been mention of an equal spilt between them all. AIBU to suggest that an equal spilt is no longer applicable since only DH and his sister have been paying the mortgage?

OP posts:
Missingstreetlife · 04/01/2019 11:28

Legal advice, obvs.

Imalittleelf · 04/01/2019 11:28

If the flat sold for 800, 000

85kish would have to be paid to the bank leaving 715000. Would need to factor in fees ect so say it's 700000.

So would be 175k plus whatever your dh has been paying in.... so 180k?

The family would probably have to do equity release to raise the funds on the flat which would increase their payments to the mortgage but means your dh cuts ties from the flat removing himself from the deeds and any money if the family then do eventually sell.

Any of these options i would suggest getting a solicitor to draw up contracts etc to ensure everyone agrees and knows what is expected.

Not sure if you can force a sale. Again speak to a solicitor on where you stand if dh stopped paying.

Do you know who's name is on the mortgage? Or who has POA?

VanGoghsDog · 04/01/2019 11:33

I agree that DH and DSis own it and there is no legal reason for them to 'share' it.

But, I think they should sell sooner rather than later, waiting for the market is a mug's game anyway and the longer it is held the longer the arguments will go on, the longer the Dh and DSis have to pay and the longer the DBro lives there and feels aggrieved at losing his home.

So, sell, DH and DSis take 1/3rd each, then the other 1/3rd (DF's original share) is split 5 ways. Is they are feeling generous maybe they would split that third three ways and keep only their third?

So annoying that he didn't make a will but, as you say, he could only have made a will for his third anyway and then only if it had been changed to tenants in common, he never had any right to divest their shares.

Original poster
Thinker03 · 04/01/2019 11:37

@shpoot it's approx 1100 per month

He tried to come off the deeds ages ago but the bank would not let him due to the affordability calculator

Cannot claim housing benefit as the sister on the deed lives with the unemployed brother and it would be deemed a contrived tenancy..you cannot live with your landlord and still claim HB

Yes I am annoyed at the unemployed brother and the remaining siblings who all will get equal cut without helping out. But at the same time appreciate now that it has only been 2 years even though it has felt longer as our family has been strained.

OP posts:
Inniu · 04/01/2019 11:40

The risk of being on the mortgage for 19 years definitely needs to be included.

Yulebealrite · 04/01/2019 11:41

Before the split Dh's payments should come out of it and he be repaid. He hasn't benefitted from the house at all whereas dsis has.

beachysandy81 · 04/01/2019 11:41

Well it is your husband and his sister's house so not actually the FILs at all by the sound of it.

However, for fairness I would give your husband a third, his sister a third and the rest split between the others. All expenses of selling etc should be paid out of the value of the house before shares are split.

Also, I know that siblings have been living there rent free - could they argue that they were helping care for the Dad? Sorry no idea if he needed care or not?

Silkei · 04/01/2019 11:41

work out how much your DP and SIL have paid in mortgage payments and give that amount back and split the rest equally between the 5 siblings.

This. Also if you’re waiting for the market to improve before you sell, you’ll be waiting for a long time! Especially with Brexit etc. And all the time you’re waiting you’re actually losing money because you’re paying interest on the mortgage! Thousands of pounds of interest every year.

Also, the only reason your DH and his sister are paying the mortgage is because they refuse to sell until prices go up. They don’t need to be paying the mortgage at all - they could sell now. Why should the other siblings be disinherited because DH and sister refuse to sell?

Stop being greedy and just sell the house now.

LemonBreeland · 04/01/2019 11:47

I agree the house should be sold now. I would also agree that DH and sister get back what they put in and a little extra, then split the rest 5 ways. We are not talking about pennies here, it is crazy to be paying that much mortgage when you can't afford it.

Imalittleelf · 04/01/2019 11:49

Silkei I think I read further back that the dh wanted to sell but sis didn't

mummmy2017 · 04/01/2019 11:54

OK so the three had a mortgage...
But only PIL paid the bills...
Legally it has now become owned by SIL and DH.
What other assets did FIL have?
Furniture, accounts and pension have to be split between the siblings.
House is owned by SIL and DH.... Nothing to do with other siblings.
Look into how to force a sale...
How you split it is up to you. And SIL.
A... 1/2 each.
B.. 1/3 each person on mortgage share FIL share at time of death. Between all siblings.
C... PAY BACK DH mortgage payments as SIL has had use rent free since FIL die and each sibling gets equal share...
By the way legally it is A... Morally it is C.

Silkei · 04/01/2019 11:55

So the sister’s greed should prevent everyone else getting their fair share? Sorry but in that case they need to go to court to force the sister to sell.

Yabbers · 04/01/2019 11:55

Financial positions of everyone, who paid what and who didn't, what promises were verbally made etc are entirely irrelevant. If the property is jointly owned by two people, it is they who benefit from the proceeds of the sale.

Everyone else can whistle.

mummmy2017 · 04/01/2019 11:56

Send it to auction...

Far easier.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 04/01/2019 11:57

Clearly you're trying to be fair, Thinker, but whether they'll do the same is another matter. Of course the sister doesn't want to sell, given that she's paying only half the cost of living there, and the brother who's living rent free certainly won't

I realise you're past this now, but I can't believe FIL failed to write a will in such a complicated situation. You need proper legal advice, though it will cost a fortune if the others refuse to leave or just plain drag it out simply because they can ... if you think this is likely, I'd concentrate on getting advice purely for your own sakes and think less about everyone else

I'm genuinely sorry, but I suspect you've got a rough ride ahead ...

Silkei · 04/01/2019 11:57

I suppose that depends if the two owners can live with going against their DF’s wishes and never seeing their siblings again. You’d have to be a greedy nasty piece of work to disinherit your own siblings.

Mix56 · 04/01/2019 12:11

DH must say he can no longer afford it, & HAS to sell or it will be repossessed
SIL, & free loader are on a fantastic deal, but they won't be able to afford the whole mortgage.(Free loader should pay rent immediately. & have reduced share due to unpaid rent for 2 years)
Go & see a lawyer, DH then agrees with sis the plans and division decided as fair & legal, & the non paying family should be grateful of anything at all, & will probably kick off, at which point you let them know they are legally entitled to nothing.

SchadenfreudePersonified · 04/01/2019 12:12

Legally house belongs to DH and his sister but morally it would be bad for them to leave out other siblings

There is your answer.

Your DH and his DS inherit the house - no arguments. It's theirs.

If your FIL had wanted others to share the value of the property, he could have offered them the chance to be put onto the mortgage, or they could have at least offered to help pay after your FIL died - they didn't.

Plus - what about your SIL and unemployed BIL? If the house is sold where does that leave them? If your DH and SIL share the property, she can buy him out and stay there if she wishes.

ReflectentMonatomism · 04/01/2019 12:13

Keeping the flat for nostalgic reasons was mentioned earlier. That’s an absolute recipe for disaster. Keeping it for the market to improve is also silly, as (a) there is CGT liability on every extra penny and (b) if people want to invest in houses, they can invest their share of the proceeds.

flirtygirl · 04/01/2019 12:14

Yabbers that is a horrible position to take and morally wrong. The dad paid for 17 years and the siblings for 2 years. The father also made his wishes known.

The joint tenants should get their payments paid in back with standard interest added and the rest then split equally amongst all siblings.

sirfredfredgeorge · 04/01/2019 12:16

there is CGT liability on every extra penny

There's no CGT liability for the sister, she lives there.

The CGT liability for the OP's DH is on the full amount anyway, so the gain is irrelevant.

Scrapper142 · 04/01/2019 12:21

Of course sister doesn't want to sell- she's got it made at the moment. Give her the two options sell or buy out dh's half. Guessing she can't afford to buy out.

Get it sold. Might to worth less than it was but still paying mortgage and sister and brother are unlikely to be keeping on top on maintenance if money is tight. What happens if boiler goes, wear and tear on carpets, kitchen, etc.

Once sold split 5 ways. Then deduct all mortgage payments from brothers share. Sister shouldn't get credit for mortgage payment as has been living there, brother should have been picking up other half, so pays you back that money out of inheritance.

shallichangemyname · 04/01/2019 12:29

Your DH must take tax advice. He didn't live there so will be liable for GGT on his share of the gain. Sister won't have any liability as she lived there.
If they agree to vary the Will/Intestacy provisions then DH needs to do it in a way that will reduce his CGT liability.

The pure legal position is that it's DH's and his DS's. they don't have to share it and the law is not about morals. Only way siblings could force a sharing is by proving
DF's expresses wishes amounted to a "death bed will". Also, I think the DB who was living there rent free could argue he was dependent on his DF at the time of his death and could therefore make a claim under the Inheritance Act.

Morally your DH acknowledges it should not all go to him and his DS. And if they did choose that path then they could be challenged, as I've set out above. But in varying the arrangements
he needs to protect himself on CGT.

ReflectentMonatomism · 04/01/2019 12:30

The father also made his wishes known.

Oh, there’s a will? Then it can be followed with respect to the father’s share. Perhaps there’s a document setting out the shares in which the flat is held, too, reflecting the payments?

Bevause with out that, he hasn’t made his wishes known in any useful way.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 04/01/2019 12:44

@Thinker can I ask if FIL / DSIL / DH are down as Joints Tenants on the property or Tenants in Common?

As I understand it, if they're Joint Tenants then everyone's right and DH/DSIL now own the property ... but if they're Tenants in Common it gets a lot more complicated (as if it wasn't already complicated enough Hmm)