To think that being a SAHP is a full time job.

[SpottedTiger]

DC1 is due soon. I'm the main earner and DH works PT, he has been seriously unwell over the last few years and this has been a huge achievement. Our plan is that after my Mat leave DH will become a SAHD and I will go back to work FT. We are both happy with this plan, however DHs family and friends are putting pressure on him to continue working PT around my work hours. Obviously if DH wants to for himself that's fine with me, but my thoughts are that looking after DD all day is a full time job in itself and it's unfair to expect him to then go to work after a full day with her when it's not financially necessary. DH works in an entry level, minimum wage job which he doesn't especially enjoy, so taking a career break for a few years shouldn't impact negatively on him from a career perspective and he is looking forward to the role of SAHD.

Older - you are agreeing with me!

Maybe my mother did limit the perimeters of her life as a SAHP. She certainly tried not to - she studied and did voluntary work, served as a school governor etc, but it wasn't enough. Unfortunately, she still felt that she was wasting her potential and she hated being financially dependent. As children, we felt the impact of her unhappiness, and indeed, we are still dealing with the impact of her regrets about the fact that she gave up her career.

I'm not saying that all SAHPs will feel bored or frustrated, or that they will regret giving up their careers. Some may not even have had careers to give up. I am merely saying that some people are simply not suited for a life that is centred primarily around the home and family, and that in those circumstances, it categorically isn't better for the children to have a parent at home. Just as some people aren't suited to juggling home and work life simultaneously.

We are not all the same.

I don’t believe that being a SAHP necessarily reduces the perimeter of life to home/family. It’s perfectly possible to be focussed on many horizon-broadening activities as a SAHP. Indeed, the horizons of many workplaces are pretty limited and limiting.

Bonsoir

I totally agree, housework and parenting only takes up so much time, especially when dc are at school.
I'd have gone mad if I defined myself by housework and parenting, my interests and hobbies are what I do instead of woh.
Some people find it hard to choose hobbies and interests over going out to work, they need what they do with their time dictated to them. Even when they are at home, some people have to do things at certain times, and can't move from a particular timed routine
Some of us just choose not to live like this.

@Eatmycheese if you are not doing 8 hours of childcare then what exactly are you doing that the rest of us don't consider work but think of as chores or necessities of family life
Don't get me wrong I think being a SAHP is a valid choice if that's what you want to do - I have no issue with it. That said I also think being a successful working women in a male dominated world sets and excellent example to my children -and in fact many SAHP use the examples of some of us working women with their daughters to show them that women can achieve whatever they want. They want their daughters to know they have choices.
That said, whilst I would support my daughters whatever they decide to do, I can't help but feel (although I wouldn't vocalise it) that I would be a little disappointed if with four degrees and clearly much potential they decided to give it all up to be a SAHP - not to mention my concerns about being totally financially reliant on a partner. Having seen many of the posts on here being a stay at home parent can really leave you up shit creek if it ends in divorce and women are unable to get back into their careers due to a long gap. But ultimately each of us do what us right for our families. It's still not work though it's a lifestyle choice

Eat I don’t think anyone says being a SAHP isn’t work.

Many people however don’t consider it to be a job.

You sound angry. It’s really not worth getting so cross about.

Indeed I should have said it's not a job. It is definitely work!!

Though I did oceans of half-assed parenting last Friday. Loads of TV was watched

@whassupmissus how exactly am I failing my daughter to show her she has choices by being (for now) a SAHP? You and others say it's a choice, so I'm exercising it. I am able to make this choice because I was successful in my career so it's a bit strange for you to assert or imply otherwise. I would hate to think that another mother would seek to imply that my "choice" was less inspiring and less enabling in terms of ensuring my children have successful futures. Whatever successful is.

I think, sadly, that it's less implied that you consider me to be wasting myself in the nurturing and raising of my three children. I'm not quite sure where to start with that, other than there's a terrible irony to that viewpoint, considering that millions of educated people consider bringing up children to be - and I quote - "the most important job in the world." I will leave it there because I generally feel that aspects of my education : academically, professionally and in life have culminated rather nicely for me as a SAHP.

The wider issues of risks and not being able to guarantee my financial future: I don't entirely disagree with you, but that wasn't an observation or aspect of what I have an issue with or what this debate was specially about, so so what. The point I have chosen to argue is that being a SAHP most certainly is a full time job. You might have a full time job and then come home and do part time hours in terms of your parenting job, or that might work part time outside the home and then come home and do part time, you might have cleaners as well as childcare but you are not a full time SAHP.

And on the subject of full time, or childcare whichever you prefer: my average day lasts from around 6am at the latest until around 11.30 pm definitely Monday to Friday. I have a fourteen month who is awake approximately eighteen hours of the day, and even then a desperate sleeper. So it's a lot more than eight hours childcare. I also have two of them all day Monday plus every afternoon too, and two school runs five days a week and two Nursery runs four days a week. And all the other work that several people have just dismissed at what they do anyway even though they're not in until whatever time. It is insulting.

Even the ONS thinks we are worth something in terms of our economic contribution. In fact our services are classed as "important"

www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/satelliteaccounts/articles/householdsatelliteaccounts/2015and2016estimates/previous/v1

And @LittleBearPad yes I am angry. Not at random strangers on here but at the fact I am fairly certain your views represent a number of women and that depresses me in terms of society and what we are pigeonholing ourselves as yet again as women. Is being able to attempt to have it all at the expense of being able to feel secure enough to quantify a value in others who do things we no longer do ourselves, do less of or indeed ever did at all. It makes me wonder if they are so blind that they cannot see by insisting there is value but no economic price of a SAHP that they are turning into retrograde versions of what previous generations of our sex fought against. It’s as I lamented earlier in this thread: bigging up (mostly )women in one breath and then dismissing aspects of them the next. If you are raising your children to know they have choices then this sort of behaviour would not be reconcilable with that perspective.

@Eatmycheese your post is on the whole fine. My opinion on what you have chosen to do is entirely irrelevant

This is the bit i take issue with

And all the other work that several people have just dismissed at what they do anyway even though they're not in until whatever time. It is insulting.

And that was the same in your first post

We do do all the other work even if that means we are up early and in bed late. How on earth do you think it gets done?? I repeat you look after children 8 hours extra when others are at work. Everything else you do the vast majority of us do. Do you think a family of five create less laundry is the parents work? Have less birthdays? Have less admin to do? I just don't understand your point in this. How is that insulting?

Goodness @Eatmycheese you did read a lot into a post saying not to get so cross about everything.

Most people I know who work full time do not have someone doing their cleaning, laundry, dog walking etc - that is not the reality for the majority.

Where I live it is extremely unusual for people not to outsource cleaning, laundry, ironing, shopping, cooking, dog walking etc, whether or not both partners work FT.

And where I live, the stay-at-home moms hire the cleaning ladies, landscapers, accountants and cooks so they can shop online, lunch with friends, and get their nails done. Those of us parenting in dual-income families clean our own houses, cook our own meals, take care of our own finances, mow our own lawns . . .

How about saying sahp CAN be a full time job (but depends on people’s priorities and situations)?

Some people’s jobs are less ‘necessary’ than others (eg they don’t ‘need’ the extra income but enjoy job or feel that it is important to society or they want the extra money to do something they think is beneficial). Likewise some things sahp’s do are not necessary for survival but may have added benefits (eg additional tutoring, various activities with children, helping relatives out). Each family values things differently.

In terms of monetary value, my masters educated sahm tutored me and brothers. 3 of us ended up getting some sort of scholarship - saving £s (agree private school isn’t necessary but monetary worth, for those who care about it, was fairly high).

@whassupmissus
My opinion on what you have chosen to do is entirely irrelevant
Oh come on, you can't seriously expect to write such a disparaging post about the already much maligned role of a SAHP and then say your opinion is "irrelevant". I actually think your opinion is entirely relevant and represents the majority view and whilst you and others may well provide lip service to SAHPing being a "valid" choice in reality you view it as an inferior that represents a squandering of potential in the workplace. It's this kind of attitude that supports the current stigma attached to SAHPs and actively removes choices from parents who may want some time out to be a SAHP but can't risk the disproportionate damage that it would inflict on their career due to the stigma or existing SAHPs that want to get back to work and can't because employers view their time as SAHPs as a terrible black mark against them. Re-read your original post and imagine someone was talking this way about your job role and tell me that it wouldn't irritate you if someone that purports that they think that being an accountant or whatever is a valid choice, but thinks it's great that all the other parents are out there acting as role models for your kids to prove that
not everyone has to be an accountant and that they would be disappointed if their child wanted to be an accountant as it would be such a waste of their potential.

I repeat you look after children 8 hours extra when others are at work. Everything else you do the vast majority of us do
I'm not sure what your point is really? Are you suggesting that WOHPs are somehow more productive than SAHPs and do more? I would absolutely dispute this and would suggest that there is absolutely no definitive answer as to whether being at home with DC of varying ages, temperaments etc is harder or easier than being at work. Lots and lots of people have stated on this thread that they find being a WOHP easier than being a SAHP and similar numbers have suggested the opposite. Clearly the "8 hours of childcare" isn't as easy as you suggest and the work (and yes it is work) associated with having children at home all day every day means that people who have been both WOHP and SAHPs can't reach a consensus.

@Bumpitybumper you really have got the wrong end of the stick here. Entirely up to you what you do and my opinion is totally irrelevant. The point about the 8 hours of childcare is aimed at eatmycheese who has said on numerous posts that SAHP is a job because she drives her kids to ballet, does the admin, organised birthday parties and does the laundry. Working parents do that too. Nowhere have I said that working parents are more productive. Just that these jobs get done by the majority of working parents who do not classify it as a job. If you rtft you would know that

@whassupmissus you have a far bigger issue with one thing I have written. And which I wrote once. Please be clear on that.

My second point was this and to make it easy for you I have pasted it

No it isn’t rubbish. This have it all thing doesn’t exist unless you can afford a cleaner, have a meal planning service, a washer woman, parents on stand by job flexibility etc etc
You shoehorn it in when you get home or before you go out but you won’t be doing everything I do in terms of the hours spent doing it, the scale, repetition, Blah blah blah. But tell me you do if it makes you feel better to pat me on the head,

I have enormous respect and sympathy for a lot of working mothers as I have spent years working alongside them and having them as friends.

I value their role in society whether by choice or necessity so please don’t insult me by saying you are better at time management and equally perform the role of a SAHP to the degree that many of us do.

I do approximately 12-14 hours of childcare a day. On my own. One of those days is with two children every afternoon is and then most of the holidays. And my children are not meek, compliant and easily pleased. They are high octane and highly assertive often quite challenging.
The other things that you have dismissed such as the laundry is also classed as Work. And if you'd bothered to look at that report you would see that my 12-14 hours of childcare and approximately 5 hours of housework plus laundry and cooking between six and nine meals every day does have some economic value.

And unless you are Mary Poppins or Doctor Who you do not and can not do everything on the scale and with the degree of repetition or responsibility or non divided (I'm assuming there is a mr what's up but please correct me if I'm wrong) labour as I do. You do it as I wrote above.

And I have no issue with that. Though you see. To expect me to feel that because you do some of my day job when you get in from being a better non education wasting role model that I don't have one. A job. Never going to happen.

My issue with your view is the factual errors regarding my labour is just part of a wider, latent undermining and provocative attitude and language regarding "choice" "aspiration" and role models etc.

All corrosive and all damaging.

@Eatmycheese really? you are trying to justify that it's a job by stating you put more effort into your laundry and driving? What do you think working parents do when they get home. - ignore the children whilst SAHP still watch them? What a crock of shit. I just can't take you seriously sorry

I don't know if it is full time. But there are no sick days nor annual leave for me as a SAHP. I do ask for days off (3.5 years). , but that isn't happening. My DH loves holidays in villas or self catering. Which are always fabulous. But I might as well be at home for the most part.
I don't need sympathy (or ltb) just letting you know it can be the reality.

And from the two high stress roles I used to have I am glad I am not working as it means we can live in a way we enjoy. I feel bad for those frustrated and / or guilty. It doesn't matter HOW you do it (work or not) if it sucks for you, that's sad.

I think the OP would’ve been better off asking ‘that being a SAHP is enough of a contribution?’
I’m a SAHP and although I’ve never thought of myself as doing a job, I do feel I make an equally valuable contribution to our lives as they are at the moment.

I feel you have to weigh up all the pros and cons (which differ family to family) and go with what works best for you.
You sound like a lovely, supportive partner and you’re working as a team. That’s half the battle won I think.

But there are no sick days nor annual leave for me as a SAHP.

There are no sick days or annual leave from being a parent though. That applies to SAHP and WOHP equally.

There are no sick days or annual leave from being a parent though. That applies to SAHP and WOHP equally.

There are plenty of ways to take annual leave from parenting. Residential holiday courses and sending DC to stay with grandparents are pretty common strategies!

@LaurieMarlow
There are no sick days or annual leave from being a parent though. That applies to SAHP and WOHP equally
The difference is that if a WOHP is ill on what would ordinarily be a working day then they could at least leave the DC in the prearranged childcare and get a chance to rest at home. For SAHPs without support then the same scenario can be very difficult.

I think the OP would’ve been better off asking ‘that being a SAHP is enough of a contribution?’
I’m a SAHP and although I’ve never thought of myself as doing a job, I do feel I make an equally valuable contribution to our lives as they are at the moment.

^^I totally agree with this.

Some of the arguments on here are ridiculous! I really don't understand why parents need to put each other down so much. It then leads to others getting really defensive and then unfortunately in a bid to prove their worth, they list every single job (including those which everyone has to do, whether sahp or wohp), thereby weakening their own argument and so it goes on!

That question 'is it enough of a contribution ' sounds very sensible to me. No point arguing semantics of what constitutes a job.

@whatsup I’m not saying I put more effort into anything than you in simply saying I do more of it on a daily basis plus the childcare. And I do. Fact. Unless you take your children to work and the house and all the running of it then you aren’t. You can’t.

And you don’t.

You are just incapable of valuing the entirety of my job in a financial setting as well as might I add aspects of your own. How regressive are you?!?

When you are out and about inspiring other poor SAHP’s little poppets in your professional capacity - something you were floating about before - I would avoid using phrases like “crock of shit”. Especially in relation to their own parents. Or should they mostly mothers.
Just a thought.