Grandad won't stop play fighting with son, ended in injury

[MrMakersFartyParty]

My son is 2 and my father always plays rough with him, flinging him about onto the sofa, tickling (past the point where my son clearly can't handle it and can barely breathe), holding him upside down and he holds him by his wrists and allows him to climb up his body. I have repeatedly said no to the play fighting because I have noticed my son being out of control, hyped up, and recently sometimes hitting (never ever does this any other time). I have also said under no circumstances is he to hold him by the arms or wrists because he actually dislocated my arms when i was a child doing the same thing.
Every other visit it is like he "forgets" and I have to intervene and then he says "oh we have to stop mummy doesn't like it", no you have to stop because you're going to break his frigging arms!
I don't want to micro manage their relationship but it's really getting me down, my son is naughty after he visits and i am terrified he's going to damage his hands and arms. My son has also started to try and play rough with his younger siblings and has ended up hurting them quite a bit now (accidentally).
In my house I am able to intervene, however he also goes to his nannas for play dates (not childcare) and my dad is there and his nan has promised that she won't allow it but I have seen photos on facebook of my son being held and swung by his wrists again.

I feel so powerless and i don't know how to handle this. my dad goes funny if i question anything he does and i have to really tread on eggshells with him. I don't know what to do because i have said "i don't want you to do that, stop, no" etc but when he "forgets" it's too late and i am worried about the consequences.

My son is starting to think i'm horrible because i'm always ruining their "fun".

Your dad is way out of line
He sounds like a bully.

Tell him if he oversteps the mark one more time then he will not be allowed to see your son. And if he does it again stick to your word.

Tbh I’d have blown my top

I think a few people have missed my update so just going to copy it below

I've never left my dad alone with my son, it basically happens mostly when he's playing at my mum's house. i guess a lot of this comes down to my mum calling my dad and saying "oh * is here, do you want to come round?" when i've actually said i don't want him there. i've just come off the phone with my mum and told her under no circumstances is my dad to go round when i'm not there and if he does i'll be stopping her having him. i don't bloody need her to have him anyway it's only because she asks me to let her have him.

i'm going to tell my dad that my son's behaviour is getting bad and that it's because of the play fighting, and that i won't tolerate it anymore at all, and i'm also going to tell him that we've been to the GP and tell a little lie that the gp may have done a referral to the HV/SS. I don't want anyone to think i've sat there watching him play fighting, i've always said "Stop that now" but at that point it's like it's already started if you know what i mean and it's hard to calm my son down. The only place I know it's been happening is at my mums and I've said now that my dad is not allowed under any circumstances to go there when my son is there.

Also I know a few are confused by how many children i have, I have a 2, nearly 3 year old and twins with an age gap

What a horrible situation for you and your poor son. Your son has no control over his life but you have the means to put a stop to this. Neither of your parents can be trusted. Your father can't be trusted to even be near your son without behaving like an idiot, your mother can't be trusted to keep your father away from your son.
Stop all visits now. You don't need to give explanations to your father. He knows what he's done. Just say your piece and don't offer excuses. Your son is at an impressionable age and you don't want him thinking this kind of overly rough play is normal.

I had this a few years ago with MIL's DH (not my DH's DF). One particular incident was when DS was 5: he returned from MIL's in a bit of a distressed state. Turned out her DH had hurt him during 'play'. I spoke with MIL straight away, but she laughed it off and said she would sort it out. The following week it happened again: not only was DS being hurt, he was also being humiliated when he complained, or told off if he retaliated. Again I told MIL: this time she actually backed her DH and said my DS - her DGC - was lying. I bumped into her DH a few days later and he apologised: it HAD happened and MIL was lying to protect her DH. They've never had him again, 3 years on, and never will. Any contact is done in our house with me watching and listening. You need to put your DS first - how will he feel in the years to come if you're not protecting him?

I don't think it needs to be a serious injury to be reported. Mandatory reporting kicks in at quite a low level these days. We've been reported twice by medical professionals and neither incident involved injury, let alone "serious" injury. They need to flag anything that could contribute towards a picture being built up to show neglect or abuse. Mostly these will be one-off lapses and they don't build into a big enough picture for SS to take action.

But's important OP understands (and I think she does) that allowing these things to happen would very much make her culpable. Her dad might be the one causing any injury but OP could still be blamed for "causing or allowing" it to happen. But the most important thing, of course, is that her son is not hurt.

Good luck OP.

I think if you think back to how he treated you as a child you’ll see that he was abusive and he is repeating the behaviour now towards both you and your DS. He disregards your wishes as a parent, he huffs and runs off over simple requests, e.g. taking shoes off, he continues behaviour he knows is dangerous, e.g. swinging from arms, and he continues behaviour he knows is unwelcome, e.g. tickling going too far. He’s doing it on purpose. Stop him abusing both of you.

I feel for you OP - it’s really hard when you have been brought up to accept this sort of behaviour and are made to feel that you are mad if you question it.

But you sound as though you know now that you’ve got to find a way to protect your children from him. Your mother is an issue as well, sorry to say.

They sound ‘toxic’ - the pair of them. He’s abusive and she’s an enabler.

Given that it’s all voluntary on your part how much access they have - I would limit it A LOT for the time being until your mother really gets the message that you are serious about this and will not put up with their crap.

1. You don't need to keep the peace.
2. You need to trust your instincts.
3. You need to protect your children from him.
4. Your son likes him - but will forget about him if he doesn't see him. no loss whatsoever.

Honestly you sound pretty strong to me. Use your strength against your dad, who really is pretty abusive and not listening to anyone, and thinks he can get his own way.

I have a nearly one year old and a nearly two year old. Playfighting with a younger sibling isn't outside the realms of possibility for op

OP, this has to stop. Your father is physically abusing your son; you need to protect him.

You are not powerless. I'm fact, you hold all the power. You must say no more unsupervised contact.
I don't think your Mum can be trusted anymore than your Dad.

Please protect your defenceless little toddler from this adult bully

I suggest you stop his visits to your mum for 1 month and tell her why - she needs a wakeup call, because she is obviously prioritising her ex over your son and you

That gives time for your son to stop his bad play habits with his siblings.

Tell her visits can resume after the month is up, but will be stopped permanently if she allows her ex around when your son is there.

There's no point in telling your dad or mum anything. You've already told them over and over and they are not listening.

Your dad is a danger to your son
Your mum is a danger to your son

You are not protecting him.

Sorry to be blunt but what if this is the week the playing fighting ends in broken bones or death?

It really is that serious OP and you need to wake up and stop your ds seeing your mum or dad.

Can you not see the pattern repeating?

Your mum would not protect you.

You will not protect your son.

I can't work out why you are so reluctant to do this.

Kids love play fighting and this kind of rough and tumble play is good for children’s development, but clearly if your son is being hurt then this is going beyond what is safe.

Instead of a blanket ‘no’ to playfighting could you instead agree on appropriate boundaries within physical play? For example you might agree that picking your son up by his waist/ tickling/ throwing over shoulders etc is okay but that holding him by his wrists/ dangling by arms is not.

It will likely be much easier for both your Dad and your son to see where you’re coming from if you are able to say specifically which aspects of the play you think are too risky (Eg: holding by joints) and to ask them to adapt the play so that it is safe than if you just put a blanket ban on all rough play.

Your job is to protect your son NOT your parents.
Tell them both (DM and DF) that their actions have consequences. eg - they don't get to see their grandson.
Also - they both repeatedly ignore you. That's pretty shit and needs to be dealt with. Good luck OP.

Sounds like you are working hard to re-set the boundaries.

Just wanted to add support in to you saying "yes DS, mummy does not like it as it hurts/upsets you and its mummy's job to keep you safe". "I will always do what I need to to keep you safe".

Keep saying it. DS might be a little unhappy with you at the time and DF likely annoyed/embarrassed, but DS will be better for it and DF? Well it's not for you to try to manage his response or emotions so he can just get on with it. Try to detach from his response if you can.

I would not let him anywhere near the children. This is assault.

Your Mum had to deal with your dislocated shoulder and still enables your Dad to do this to his grandson. I think you did the right thing standing up to her.

Sorry OP but you really need to protect your children over keeping the peace with your parents.

You grew up in an abusive home and this has skewed your perception of what is normal. Your DM failed to protect you from abuse and serious injury and now she is failing to protect your child in exactly the same way. Now your DM may also have been abused and brainwashed by your F - but it is clear that she is not going to stop your F from abusing your child. You need to stop both of them from having unsupervised access to your children - deep down I think you know that you need to do this but you have been conditioned to allow your F to have his own way throughout your life.

Otherwise your DS is inevitably going to end up in A&E with a serious injury just as you did. However these days it will definitely lead to SS and police involvement and you will need to explain to them why you allowed him contact with your parents despite knowing what was going on.

My DB has always done this with my 2 DSs. I hate it because of all the shrieking and hysteria and by the time he's finished with them they don't know if they're laughing or crying. BUT they bloody love it. Can't get enough of their uncle. Luckily he's only in the country for 2 weeks a year and now they're 7 and 9 I don't worry about them getting hurt so much. I had to put my foot down when they were much younger, although he was always very mindful to give them plenty of moments to breathe in the tickling/wrestling games. What I hated the most would be that their faces were chaffed raw from all the beard rubs. But as I say he's one of their favourite people ever. But your son is only 2 and being hurt, so I would absolutely not let your DF play with him without your supervision. But you might find as he gets older he'll actively seek out that level of horseplay.

You obviously can't trust your mum, much as you'd like to.
I agree with suggesting that you've spoken to the GP/HV and been threatened with SS referral or whatever - because otherwise the chances are what will happen is the same as what happened to you.

Your father is a grade A dick, by the way.

I don't think he's merely a dick
I think he's poisonous and destructive

Use the white lie if you want to, but you don't need to rely on someone else's authority to make this stop. If your dad does it again get his jacket and boot him out the door. Don't let him back in again until he promises not to do it again (till he promises, not till your mother promises on his behalf and says he's really sorry and didn't know it bothered you so much blah blah blah) and if after that he does it again, don't let him back in the door full stop. I'd also make it clear to your mother that the visits to hers will be stopping if your dad does the same thing there.

The thing is, there's loads of these sorts of things where maybe it was OK when we were kids (not if you dislocated a joint though!) or other parents would be OK with it or he wouldn't have known his mistake or whatever and that's all fine, but what's really messed up is how many times you've asked for this to stop and it hasn't stopped. That's not the actions of a nice person.

You are the one with all the power in this situation and your father knows it, hence his need to undermine you.

He doesn't respect you either as a mother or as a human being. Your son relies on you to protect him and you'd be well within your rights to withhold contact.

I wouldn't be letting him visit his grandmother until she can give you a reassurance that your father will not be informed when your son is visiting. Your father has proved time and time again that he's unwilling to change. Being a grandparent is a privilege and he's abusing it.

I think you should stop this toxic relationship with your parents, why on earth did you want to re-establish a relationship with them at all? There is no need for you to deliver any of your children to them at all. You need to make a stand for your son; if recognise there is something wrong you must stop it.

I wonder if it would take a SS referral for you to stop allowing this?