The right reasons to have children?

[livupq]

If the world is as overpopulated as people say do you think you have to have more extrinsic reasons for having children? More and more jobs will be become automated and the jobs we need require more and more expertise and intelligence. On the parenting side it is increasingly important to have parents that value education and understand child development who can provide a loving and nurturing home to children. Having all these traits and the money and time to do that isn’t possible for everyone.

If you were not particularly special - not very pretty or intelligent or with special talents is there a reason to have children? Understandably most people want them but should we put that behind us as selfish desires? Naturally things won’t always go to plan and even if you are smart or pretty your children may not be. Even if you could support them and provide for them emotionally and physically you could lose your job... but that seems different than trying to do the right thing in the first place. Right now it feels like having children is the natural state no matter what your circumstances even though we are supposedly enlightened.

Just interested in others thoughts.

Pieceofpurplesky I don’t mean to offend you but when I listed those qualities you did reply with blond blue eyed and a PhD. That really is not what I meant but does illustrate why this is flawed on a macro level. Other people interpret what talented, smart and pretty mean within cultural bounds which I don’t think we should do.

No, I wonder why people do have children. What they think they have to pass on to them, their means to take care and nurture them considering the challenges they will have to face in the world and whether they consider that some qualities may be more beneficial for the child?

tonsilss I’m sure of this too if done at the government level via laws.

However I’m also sure they’d think of that too. And I don’t think this would be a problem. Genetic screening isn’t perfect and as previous posters have mentioned you may have intelligence but not want to do something academic or high proflile. Also artificial intelligence and robotics may take the place of them one day.

But isn’t it worse to have a child thinking “well the world needs people at the bottom”?

MarcieBluebell Good is a difficult trait to pin down but hopefully good nurturing as a child would help. Is being good a genetic factor, upbringing or a mix of both? Also doesn’t “good” depend on where you are and your position? A good leader of a prosperous country may want to protect his/her citizens and so may only give what the country can afford to give to a country with less resources. Say this leader of the country with less resources doesn’t think it is fair that through no fault of their own their people starve... Good people may try to find an amicable solution but that may take creativity, intelligence - a whole other set of traits than pure good intention.

True but over time the averages increase for intelligence, beauty etc... so even though you can’t see it the futures “less attractive, less intelligent” people are on a whole other ball game.

Confusedbeetle For the majority or maybe those who don’t have or done realise they have a choice it is. Look how we defy biology in the modern world with the first age of having a child since we have contraception and education and financial security can take a long time to attain.

MirriVan Aha! But why do so few people think about this? It is lonely which is perhaps why mainly just stick with the status quo? I’ve had many thoughts like that!

I guess there are some pros to bring different but again I feel the need for my life choices to be affirmed. If everyone is doing something it feels like they must be doing the right thing. All those collective brains have come to the sane conclusion by logic and reason so what is wrong with mine?

You don’t have to be pretty or clever to do a hundred and one jobs that society needs. If you only allow the future Drs to be born who are going up be their orderlies, nurses, porters receptionist etc etc.

But @livupq I used the idea is blonde hair blue eyes as your ideas remind me of someone else who felt only certain people should breed - not that what I find attractive is this ...

Any selection based on somebody else's opinion is wrong. Fine if you don't want children but other people do. Just because they don't fit your narrow minded ideals does not mean they should not be born. A society without flaws will only lead to new issues.

Nobody has children to make the world a better place.

They have children because they WANT to.

You are just as entitled as anyone else to selfishly have children because you think you'd like it.

Pieceofpurplesky I think you misunderstand me. I think this chose should be made by the individual for exactly that reason and the thought should be how will the child you’d have fit in and cope with the world around them considering the pressures they are likely to face in the future. Surely it isn’t unusual to think of this? Traits like being pretty smart and talented would help so would you be anxious if you didn’t have those traits when having a biological child?

Karigan195 I don’t know, will society always function the way it does now? Apparently many jobs we have currently won’t even exist in the future and that is just what we know about now. Who is to say jobs and roles won’t evolve as needed? That there won’t be robots doing manual repeatable jobs?

If people only had children if they were all the things you describe - pretty, smart, we would not have enough children to keep the economy going when we’re old.

If you look at Japan they are having lots of problems due to people deciding to be celebate and not have children

MirriVan That doesn’t sound more positive to be honest. Compassion is a trait well worth having around.

On the clever people not reproducing I think there was some research that suggested clever women were having less children. So perhaps clever men can always have children but the same is not the case for women or at least they struggle more...

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/07/smart-women-not-having-kids

Cafeaulait27 Perhaps but is our economy sustainable in its current form? Resources are limited unless we look to destroy colonise other planets. Or unless we want to cull the population to maintain a pyramid? Perhaps we need to change how things currently work...

The majority in America voted for Donald Trump
No they didn't.

I'm fat and fuck ugly @livupq however my son is a handsome, tall and skinny 14 year old. His dad is a cheating bastard without a maths GCSE. DS is kind and caring and quite smart - he is environmentally aware and wants to go in to politics. Predicted 6/7/8 in exams. At the time I loved his dad and wanted to have a child. I never ever thought I was too ugly or my ex too stupid.
I just knew I would make a great parent and so far I have.

MirriVan taking all you say to it’s logical conclusion, surely the most compassionate course of action for an anti-natalist is suicide?

I mean, life basically = suffering in this world view - your own or other people’s. Even if you’re happy now, there is no guarantee you will be by this time tomorrow, or able to do anything about that - so why risk it, given the cost of your continued existence to e.g. the planet? You might quibble that because you DO exist, against your own wishes obviously, you would cause more suffering to those who love you by stopping than you would improve matters for yourself and the world by your absence - but surely your potential to injure others and absorb resources is far greater than the temporary grief of a handful of human beings?

So frankly I don’t buy it. So you don’t want kids. So you think human life is “a bad thing” in general. But don’t dress it up as a pure moral choice, because if it was you’d have the courage of those convictions wouldn’t you. You still think your life matters enough to be worth whatever suffering or damage your existence may cause. Just not other people’s.

Reading your posts is like reading a textbook.

In my world, there’s only ever one reason to have a child.
Lots of negatives- cost, disruption, unknown what you’ll get, can wreak havoc on your body and your relationship. Worry for the rest of your life.

The one reason- the primal urge- because you’ll risk all of the above, simply because you couldn’t possibly not.

And eugenics, good genes and outlook- phhht!!! You could be a Nobel price winner - no guarantee that your “elite” child won’t be brain damaged during birth. Or develop a childhood cancer. Or a neuro development issue.

You walk into parenthood blind.
You take the child you get : not the one you planned to have.

It may cost you more than you imagined possible to give.
And reward you more than you can now imagine.

Think carefully, yes.
But do only because you couldn’t possibly not.

Mirri assuming you are real how would you make that selection though. And one person's attractive is anothers ugly