The right reasons to have children?

[livupq]

If the world is as overpopulated as people say do you think you have to have more extrinsic reasons for having children? More and more jobs will be become automated and the jobs we need require more and more expertise and intelligence. On the parenting side it is increasingly important to have parents that value education and understand child development who can provide a loving and nurturing home to children. Having all these traits and the money and time to do that isn’t possible for everyone.

If you were not particularly special - not very pretty or intelligent or with special talents is there a reason to have children? Understandably most people want them but should we put that behind us as selfish desires? Naturally things won’t always go to plan and even if you are smart or pretty your children may not be. Even if you could support them and provide for them emotionally and physically you could lose your job... but that seems different than trying to do the right thing in the first place. Right now it feels like having children is the natural state no matter what your circumstances even though we are supposedly enlightened.

Just interested in others thoughts.

I never wanted children, OP, but still found your post quite sad. You don’t need to be clever or special or pretty to have children - I would say wanting them and being willing to love them and do the best for them is most important.

It would be wonderful if only people who wanted children could conceive them, and those who don’t want them would not. More people are electing not to have children and that is a good thing, it means a bit more thought is going into the decision whether to become a parent or not.

I'm always wary of this discussion around who is entitled to have children and who isn't. Especially as it usually relates to controlling women's fertility. We're damned if we do, damned if we don't, have too many, have too few, too young, too old, too poor, too dumb, too ugly.

I thought this article was interesting www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2017/9/26/16356524/the-population-question

If you want to get in a bind about population and climate change focusing on female empowerment and income equality seem a good place to start. Rather than judging the choices of individuals, usually women, which is where this one usually goes.

The urge to mate and reproduce is as strong and as natural as the need to eat sleep drink move be around others.

That's quite obviously not true though.

Every human that has ever existed has needed to eat, sleep and drink. If they don't, they'll die, pretty quickly. No exceptions.

There is no corresponding need to reproduce. If you don't do it, you won't physically suffer at all - quite the opposite, particularly if you're female. Not to mention the fact that many people actively choose not to have children, whereas nobody - at least nobody psychologically normal - chooses not to eat, drink or sleep for sustained periods. If they do, they'll face serious consequences quite soon.

Yes - it's an excuse used by people who want to do what they want to do, regardless of the consequences.

firesuit on eugenics there are plenty of other downsides than that bad people put it into practice. Generally a diverse population has greater resistance to disease etc.

On a macro level I don’t think restricting choice to have children would be a pleasant world to live in. Also it may imply the reverse that some people will be expected to reproduce regardless of their wishes. What do you think? It is why I wonder about it more on the individual level - expecting people to be responsible. Doesn’t seem like most people do think about it from this angle though.

kalinkafoxtrot45 love is important but what about bringing someone into an overly competitive world with a bad set of cards?

I think that there should be a lot of focus on making it easy for people to choose not to have children - eg easy to obtain free contraception, and generally creating an environment where having no or few children is seen as the norm. That would include improving care for the elderly (where we are currently seeing the opposite), removing barriers to women having good careers, etc.

Encouraging only "special" people to breed would be likely to end badly. And I don't think we want or need a society of only "special" people. But I do believe in challenging all children and adults to reach their full potential, rather than keeping the bright and talented back, learning at the same pace as the less bright and talented.

Perhaps the OP just desires a world of blond/e haired blue eyed people from parents who have a phd?

Pieceofpurplesky not at all. I’m not sure how you can interpret smart OR talented OR beautiful as blonde blue eyed and with a PhD, speaks more about your own prejudices.

I think considering what you or a potential child have to offer to an overcrowded world shouldn’t be unusual.

Tonsilss I agree more work should be done in helping people achieve but resources are limited and no one really wants to make tough/unpopular choices. I think many bright and average children are held back in state schools (not all) because there isn’t the time or inclination to help those already doing okay, when really we should be pushing people to excel. Imagine a society where most people wanted that... where most we’re not satisfied by just okay.

There are no altruistic / 'good' reasons to have children. 🤷🏼‍♀️ I'd be interested if people could come up with even one.

And you make a good point about - obviously - it should be a consideration for all would-be parents about whether they can give the love and time that a child needs.

I'm really curious about the back story to your post, OP. People rarely 'just wonder' about a question out of the blue, to the extent they go onto the UK's biggest parenting forum to ask users what they think.

Are you personally pondering whether to have kids? Or researching for a book? Am intrigued.

OrdinaryGirl it was either going to be here or Reddit and considering this is a sure for parents - it made sense that if anyone else had thought about it more it would be the users here. It can be a risk though - I’ve seen many thought provoking questions get shut down here but still many remain.

I ask mainly for myself but like so many other people I often have weird things like this pop into my head. I was a mostly unhappy child always thinking about why the world is the way it is.

tbh if my child is going to contribute so badly to climate change that the planet is fucked because of their existence, then I don't see how them being supremely beautiful is going to help that

would someone losing their land in the low-lying parts of Bangladesh take comfort from the fact that there is a very handsome young man striding around in Hampshire? I doubt it

as for intelligence, that is only worthwhile if they use their intelligence to benefit the planet- and I have absolutely no guarantee of that

Overpopulation isn't caused by people having too many children - in fact the birth rate is falling globally and has been since the early decades of the last century.

What is causing overpopulation is that people are living longer. Far fewer children die in infancy, vaccines have eradicated many major diseases, the conditions associated with old age can be alleviated if not cured.

So there isn't really an "answer" to this, other than killing people off Logan's Run style. If people had fewer children, then the economically inactive sector of the population, which is growing all the time as these are the people who wouldn't have survived without medical advances, will not have enough people to support them. Attempts at population control are generally speaking not good news eg what's been happening to baby girls in China.

So we're fucked whatever we do.

When I say that the economically inactive sector will continue to grow, what I mean is that as medicine continues to advance there will be more people who would otherwise have died but who now live but are unable to work for whatever reason. If we don't have enough economically active people ie more young people ie more people being born, we won't be able to support them. It's kind of a vicious circle

I have no prejudices OP. Unlike you who think only the pretty or the smart deserve to reproduce.

I have been a teacher for 20 years. I see beautiful souls every day that are neither stereotypically beautiful or traditionally smart. The world is made of many parts and was it not the smart ones that devised the means to damage and pollute?

If some law were introduced, allowing only a selected few to breed, I can pretty much guarantee that the rich would be on the allowed to breed list.
I wonder who would then take on the job of cleaning toilets?

On an extrinsic level surely humanity would be better if only -good- people were born. Wars and global cooperations ruining the planet isn't great. Brains and beuty are appreciated but any good person can volonteer or make a difference in some way.

Health is also something you can't sadly guarantee; mental or physical. I couldn't look after a child so won't have one.

Just to add if only pretty ppl had babies there would still be a new ugly. Same with brains. There would be a new stupid.

This is rather a naive thread in my opinion. We are biological animals and our needs frequently surpass our logic. Biology is the king whenever iy can be

corythatwas my reasoning is tenuous on beauty but I think it is a huge part of the human experience. People want to be around beautiful people and they inspire them. The traits I spoke about were mainly for the collective good. So no, a handsome man in another country will not help in your situation but he may help boost collective moral or be a muse to someone. He may be a husband someone wants to work hard to come home to.

Hulloa that is a great point and possible a whole other thread. I think that with technology the need for people does decrease. And it does dictate a whole new level of skills those new people need. People living longer and in poor health is another issue though that exasperates the first issue. I don’t think that because we can’t fuc everything at once that we can try to fix part of things. Allowing people to choose how they die is another contentious issue but one I also think should be an individuals choice.