To think we should forgive old people their transgressions?

[lboogy]

Reading a lot of threads here about PILs and parents and how irritating they can be has made me think about forgiveness generally.

Obviously each circumstance is different but for gripes like getting bad presents, being ignored, having rude off the cuff things said should we be more forgiving in the knowledge that parents & in laws may not be around for much longer and wouldn't it be better to ignore/turn the other cheek. After all when we get to that age and much of our support system has died we'd need our remaining family to be compassionate /forgiving to us.

Nope

Getting older is no excuse for rudeness/stinginess/racism/homophobia/enter bad behaviour of choice

Totally agree.

My mum and her husband are in their 70s.

They are not racist, rude, homophobic, nasty, voted remain, love all their family, dils/sils included. Can manage to be civil to everyone etc etc.

If you're a cunt you're a cunt and barring dementia etc (which is the trotted out trope usually on these type of threads), there's no excuse for being mean to people on purpose.

OP: mil said I am not good enough for her son and treat our ds very obviously less favourably than sils'

Responding poster: Maybe it's dementia

No. Maybe she is just a fucking horror bag.

You are who you are
Age has got fuck all to do with it
Sadly

Age wise I'm thinking 70+

The reason for this thread is my own experiences with pil and the issue I have with them if I'm being honest are so minor in the grad scheme of things that often I tell myself to let it go, but I don't. I let it fester even though I know deep down they are not malicious

Some of what has been described in this thread is downright rude even then I think do you want someone to die with bad blood between you?

I used to have loads of arguments with my sister and I'd always reach out (not immediately mind) because I never wanted her to die without us clearing the air. TBH after a while I stopped because it became apparent she was taking me for granted and knew ( told me) I'd always be 'the bigger person '

I think it's at this point since that I stopped 'being the bigger person' but with new year and FiL being in hospital I'd hate to see them die
Knowing that I could have let the stupid things said go . Life really is too short.

Or maybe I'm just a sap..

What's pissed you off then that you think is age related?

The reason for this thread is my own experiences with pil and the issue I have with them if I'm being honest are so minor in the grad scheme of things that often I tell myself to let it go, but I don't. I let it fester even though I know deep down they are not malicious

Well that is your issue. most of us wouldn't fall out with family for minor things like this. So yes you are silly falling out over minor shit you actually don't care about. And yes you should start forgetting about it as people get older. Duh.

Most of us answering on this thread were answering a very different question and I wish you had taken the time to clarify so as not to waste all our time.

Some things yes, such as forgetfulness and a strange choice of presents. Things such as racism, homophobia and most rudeness, no.

Getting older is no excuse for rudeness/stinginess/racism/homophobia/enter bad behaviour of choice
Actually it may well be a perfectly valid excuse, because any frontal lobe atrophication can cause exactly those behavioural changes.

Having seen a friend's father who suffered frontal lobe brain damage in an accident, I now have a pretty good idea about the (quite shocking) behavoural/judgemental impact this can have in an individual and I also recognise that these behaviours can start to show in the elderly simply through age related brain shrinkage.

Last time we visited my MIL - she commented to my DS1 that he wasn't as good looking as DS2. She's not been diagnised with dementure, but that isn't a comment she would have made 5 years ago. We'll live with it.

pallisers did you mean to be so rude?

You forgive 'older' people their transgressions, in exactly the same way you forgive 'young' people their ageism, in the full realisation that a specific incident does not brand the whole cohort a specific kind of shit.

Even though shitty outlooks can be commonly held

I can forgive some things that are part of old age and can turn the other cheek when it's the product of dementia as it's not worth trying to reason with someone who'll haveforgotten the conversation in 3 minutes or less.
I can also forgive much older relatives (80s and 90s) saying things that stem from a different era regarding race, gender roles, sexuality etc as long as it's one of those turns of phrase with no malice and they're open to being reminded that's not ok now. I can't turn a blind eye to grumbling daily mail type opinions.

When people are being arseholes and rude in their 60s then there's no excuse.

Hell no.
They’ve got away with this shitty behaviour for far too long and think they’re “entitled” to act like that .
I don’t accept rude behaviour from anyone regardless of age

If you replaced 'age' with 'disability' would this thread be in anyway acceptable? After all, both can lead to different behaviours, in some but not an all.

The ageism on MN is astounding, and not in a good way.

RoseAndRose
Well said.

No.

Actually it should say say yes YABU. I don't agree.

If you replaced 'age' with 'disability' would this thread be in anyway acceptable? After all, both can lead to different behaviours, in some but not an all
Ridiculous comparison.
Based on that argument:
Let's accept teenagers being loud and anti-social after all, puberty might affect people differently.
In the workplace, just accept some managers might be rude, unpleasant and make unkind comments, after all workplace stress affects people differently.

In fact let's say it's totally acceptable for people to be rude, unkind and obnoxious full stop because life.

I think you’re confusing the word ‘forgiveness’ for ‘tolerance’. Should we tolerate certain behaviour from the elderly? As many here say, it’s utterly dependent on circumstances. If someone is an arse, they will always be so, no one should tolerate it because they’ve gained a few wrinkles. Like that older man in the papers a few weeks back, the one who threw racist abuse at an air hostess - should we have all gone ‘aw, he shouldn’t be rude, but I’m sure he didn’t know he was using out of date language poor old man’. They know, they just don’t care and think we still live in a society of ‘respect your elders (no matter what)’, which we don’t.

As for ‘let the little things go’, again I agree to a point. However, as the years go by these little things can build up. So either you can try and find the backbone to say ‘enough, that bothers me’, or just become a martyr. There are so many wet posters on here who have put up with years of people (in laws) taking the piss over trival matters, and then get a hundred responses of ‘why the hell cant you say no’? They have been conditioned to tolerate crap behaviour because it’s what is expected of them.

*If you replaced 'age' with 'disability' would this thread be in anyway acceptable?

Seriously? That’s an embarrassment of a comparison. Getting older isn’t a disability!

Really, it's the elderly who should be more tolerant of others, rather than the other way around, as they have years of life experience and wisdom to fall back on.

Whereas the people who need a bit more compassion are teenagers, who have no life experience, and are bags of raging hormones with no guiding wisdom.

A 70 year old using the word “nigger” is not using it because he is 70. He’s using it because he is a racist.

It depends if there's anything to forgive. If people are doing this stuff on purpose to be irritating then no, I don't think anyone should put up with it. If they're being unintentionally annoying I think you steer a course between trying to maybe saying something about the more irritating stuff and tolerating the rest.

I have to say OP, and it's not your fault, but these generic "forgive your in-laws/parents/elderly people, it's Christmas" threads drive me up the wall. AIBU and Stately Homes are full of people this time of the year who are being made miserable by their utterly vile relatives' death by a thousand cuts, who then come on here to try and get an objective opinion about it. And what happens is, because all the abuse they receive is petty, plausibly deniable stuff - because abusive people aren't stupid, they know they have to keep you guessing or else you'll eventually stop coming back for more - naive people with nice parents interpret this one incident as forgivable, which it totally would be if it was done unintentionally by generally nice people, and tell the OP that Christmas is about tolerance of other people yadda yadda and the person goes back tail between legs and the abusive family member gets to take yet another crack at them or their family the next time they all meet. Christ, I live on Stately Homes and it even works on me! I vaguely think of myself as a hard hearted person who has no time for the elderly, and I have to remind myself that I used to be a volunteer for Age Concern and I loved it, because not all old people are like my mother - not all old people are anything, just the same as people of any other age.

Definitely. Because the reality is that some change of personality ses to affect the vast majority of older people and they will most likely affect posters who say no when their time come. The most common change that sadly results in older people becoming particularly difficult is anxiety. Older people get anxious about things that make no sense to us but that's how it is. My MIL was the most confident woman I'd ever met but anxiety has now got to her and that is leading her to be controlling and nasty when she doesn't get her way. She doesn't realise she is, it's her way to protect herself. It is very difficult at time but most time it's a question of mindset and don't let it get to me any longer. I just don't confide in her as I used to and also don't go and visit her as often.

It's similar to the menopause. I used to have little sympathy for unpleasant menopausal women. I'm now there, massively sleep deprived, battling low mood and everything else that comes with it and despite my best effort, I'm more diffi ult than I used to be. Understanding goes a long way to help me make more efforts.

"Getting older isn’t a disability!" DoneLikeAKipper, aging causes physiological changes throughout the body and brain.

I agree that many people seem to have no knowledge about aging, in the way mant child free people don't want to know or understand child development.

The brain goes through lots of changes throughout our lifetime. So do hormones and body systems.

As a pp poster recognised the changes in her aging relatives, I did in my Mother.

She became very blunt and can across as though she was 'snapping' at people, in the last few years of her life. Her sense of reasoning was less. She could still do mathematical stuff on paper and crosswords. But there were changes. She was easily swayed, could come out with things which were racist because she hadn't thought it through. We are mixed heritage, she, me and my half-sister are all first generation UK born.

Geriatrics and Gerontology studies/research aren't carried out for fun and their findings can't just be dismissed.

If someone's always been a nasty twat, then you don't forgive. But if they are changing or getting worse, then a level of tolerance should be shown.

swingofthings, I totally agree about anxiety and depression.

There's massive changes as you get to your late 60's/70's. Your physical health has changed, ability to do things, energy levels, the way you look, your sex life, your working life ending, getting closer to dying, your Family, Friends, Partner becoming ill or dying, worrying about your Children/Grandchildren and not being able to help them. And the side effects of medication. Being in pain etc. For a lot of Women, incontinence etc. Your whole identity has changed.

aging causes physiological changes throughout the body and brain

Whilst true, unless it’s a severe case as in with dementia, then you can’t have it both ways. There are a million threads here berating a poster for calling out an ‘old person’, for ageism and for thinking anyone over 65 can no longer function like ‘the young ones. Generally speaking, if you have your faculties, then there is no reason to be rude/homophobic/bigoted/racist etc or to tolerate it - age included. Actually, that doesn’t just apply to age - unless there is a very good medical reason, no one (regardless of disability, other health issues or just the way they were raised), should be tolerated in behaviour deemed harmful to others.