Disgusted at how the UK government will charge EU nationals £65 and no iPhone app

[Rosepetalgeranium]

Even if someone has been here working hard and paying tax for decades they will have to pay £65 to stay and there's only an android app to apply not even an iPhone app!

Conflating a £65 admin charge and the Jewish holocaust is disgusting, ridiculously overblown and makes you look stupid.

Well said.

The governments dirty little secret is that it couldn't do that. Bluntly even now, it has no idea who should be in the UK and who should not. In fact even more basically, it has no idea who is here at all.

Omg this it is true

That’s your companies fault not the Romanians and I assume they still pay tax and national insurance so it’s none of your business what they do with their salaries.

Also why difference does the fact that they did not pay tutition fees make the slightest difference.

Also your last comment about why they haven’t got British citizenship maybe because they didn’t have to and didn’t realise that the British government who value their contribution would charge them for the right to stay after Brexit.

Where in fact the EU have been completely reasonable and said that nothing should change for British citizens living in the EU

That’s because for the enth time in most circumstances Brits are already registered in their host country and have already paid for a residency card. Why would they pay for another??

That’s because for the enth time in most circumstances Brits are already registered in their host country and have already paid for a residency card. Why would they pay for another??

Which countries?

Oh I missed this link earlier.

I meant to attach it to one of my replies regarding British migrants in EU countries. Since some posters here keep saying EU migrants yet British ex-pats

www.bbc.com/capital/story/20170119-who-should-be-called-an-expat

Also your last comment about why they haven’t got British citizenship

Does Romania allow dual citizenship ?

I'd say expats are people who have kept active links with their home country (their employer's HQ, property, other business interests etc). An immigrant or migrant is for me someone who has no plans to go back, whose stay is completely open ended. I've never worked in my country of origin, own no property there, don't even have close relatives left there- I'm an immigrant.

It has nothing to do with my earning power by the way.

This is just the thin edge of the wedge really. The British public often poll in support of the death penalty so expect to see that suggested again once we no longer have to abide by EU human rights

The British public often poll in support of the death penalty so expect to see that suggested again once we no longer have to abide by EU human rights

Given that the ECHR is nothing to do with the EU (except they have all signed up to it) it does rather call in to question the "British public"s grasp of the facts ?

The UK signed up to the ECHR by dint of having written it. If it really wanted to withdraw (and suffer the consequences) leaving the EU is probably not the best way to go about it.

I'm probably wrong. After all, I've had over two years of being told repeatedly that Leavers knew exactly what they were voting for. So it can't have been to leave the ECHR, can it ?

I don't think it is right to tell someone how they should feel to be honest. Or how they should "take" something that affects their lives and their family's

I did not mean this in a patronising or dismissive way. It is easy to get trapped inside a catastrophic mindset (I know because it had totally happened to me too after the referendum), especially with all the EU "grassroots" campaigns that, quite honestly, turned into echo chambers of self pity, full of Nazi comparison tropes as upthread and - sometimes - open hate against the British people. Some of Eastern European "EU rights" social media groups, for example, regularly have extremely racist posts about other, "less deserving", immigrants - Muslims, Africans etc., which get a lot of upvotes. EDL is, paradoxically, capitalising on Brexit and the resulting social alienation, with leaflets now available in Polish - "they want to replace YOU with Mohammed and his twenty wives" (I invented the slogan, the actual one is along the same lines but much more disgusting). The bigotry is on both sides.

I just wanted to offer a different perspective. You are British, your husband and children are British, no one is sewing yellow stars on your clothes. Some stupid people feel entitled to comment because they feel like it's their field day, but there ALWAYS will be stupid people around, in any country, and you won't be able to placate everybody, and neither should you. "The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on" became my motto, and it did improve my life a lot.

I regret the Brexit vote very much, and my forecasts of what is going to happen to the economy is actually more pessimistic than the industry consensus (and I am professionally involved in the crystal ball economic forecasting sector). If I am able to persuade the family court, I will leave the country with my children - I don't see a bright future for them here.

However, to get the facts correct, there was never an absolute freedom of movement between the UK and other EU countries, it was never the equivalent of moving to a neighbouring province. It was always conditional on being economically active, in study or independently wealthy with health insurance in place. The problem was that, unlike many other EU countries, the UK chose not to enforce the rules with registrations and deportations. I find it a bit strange that a lot of people seem to just have relocated to another country, but never bothered to check the rules. But maybe my "visa national" background shows here.

However, to get the facts correct, there was never an absolute freedom of movement between the UK and other EU countries

The problem is facts are a bit late now.

What have facts got to do with it?
Brexit was always about lies.

And the vision is now fully clear, as laid out by Jeremy Hunt. See today's MoS and the praises for the low tax Singapore model:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6539111/Born-Brexiteer-Jeremy-Hunts-manifesto-low-tax-Britain.html

So, to the posters who go on about the neglected poor of the post industrial North, you STILL think brexit will help? It will kill off what's left of public services. My guess is also that it will probably kill off democratic institutions too. You think there's social injustice now? Pah! It makes me so angry, there's no word.

By the way, I'm angry because I love this (now my) country. I'm anti brexit and very pro Britain!

silvercuckoo, I agree; good post.

Someone asked above if Romania allows dual citzenship - it does.

It is interesting reading these things. I have never really felt I would ever want to leave this land. The theoretical option to emigrate eslwhere in the EU or further afield is not really an option that I have ever considered or wanted. The loss of a slightly easier way to live in France doesn't feel ilke a loss to me. The idea of having two passports and nationalities seems strange and usual and different and "other".

I do not like any laws which change all the time. Sadly there are loads of them (and in fact I make my living in a sense from constant changes in law as a lawyer so I ought instead to love them). You lose your faith in them and it feels inherently unfair. However who can move here has been an issue for a very long period indeed. The flow used often to be the other way - people having trouble making a living here might go off to Indian, Australia, US etc from the UK - those were the lands of potential plenty leaving behind the poverty of the UK. I suppose the Romans, Vikmings, Normans etc wanted to take us over but hardly because they wanted to live here. Going back even further people were driven out from these islands in ice age after ice age including when were joined to France by Doggerland etc and always then returned. Then we lost an awful lot of people during the plague times.

"UK Mitochondrial DNA analysis
This indicates that a majority of maternal lines in the population go back to the Palaeolithic and Mesolithic periods. The lines tend to be similar in all parts of Britain, though with Norse input in the Northern and Western Isles of Scotland".

It sure how I’ve twisted any. I only went on an apprenticeship because my parent had too much money apparently for me to get any financial help for my degree. They were living off savings because one was too ill to work and one couldn’t get a job. They couldn’t give me any so I couldn’t afford uni. I had to sit there and watch other people be brought into the country because a firm worked out it was cheaper to employ people from eu countries that didn’t have to pay for their degrees and therefore ended up earning more once qualified as well as costing the firm less. People like me were bottom of the employment list because we had to do the whole qualification instead of having the exemptions other eu people gained for free from their respective countries. All of us had no skills in the vocation itself. Of course you earn a degree but I didn’t get that chance in the uk so I’m happy for eu people to be put off working here until the uk sorts it out that we are in equal footing for a start in jobs here unlike the system I started in.

With regards to why not just get British citizenship I’m still unsure having rtft as to why not.
As I said I’m not pro brexit but I am pro being raised in this country not being put last . Tbh I think ID cards for everyone would work and everyone should have to pay for one but can you imagine the uproar that would cause.

Xenia, are you arguing that the only valid form of nationality is through blood? It's an approach Germany had for historical reasons (And to a certain extent still does) but it's been a source of many many issues because the population is increasingly less homogenous (I will NOT use the 30s for this exampke). I know many Germans (not racist or xenophobic) who don't really understand jus soli. It's cultural, however I don't think it's been the British approach (correct me if I'm wrong).
The problem is natiobality through descent only is ill adapted to a modern, more fluid world. Mixed families etc make it necessary to redefine the concept of people and identity.

" Where in fact the EU have been completely reasonable and said that nothing should change for British citizens living in the EU"

Ehm, that is not true

Brits abroad will need to get citizenship or residence papers after Brexit

That is nothing to do with being reasonable or unreasonable

Just that if the UK is no longer in the EU, UK nationals in EU countries no longer can use "freedom of movement", so they will now be treated like other migrants from outside the EU and need visas etc.

Lots of my Brit friends in Germany are panicking and/or have started applying for citizenship.

If it really wanted to withdraw (and suffer the consequences) leaving the EU is probably not the best way to go about it.

You're being disingenuous. Numerous members of the government including the PM have directly referred to leaving the jurisdiction of the ECHR as part of Brexit.

As I said I’m not pro brexit but I am pro being raised in this country not being put last
Put last? If your parents were dissbled/unable to find work, they were able to claim benefits. Doesnt it cross you mind that it also thanks for many EU workers paying taxes as British people that they were able to do so? You couldn't go to Uni because they couldn't afford it? Rubbish! There are loans and grants available for students in these circumstances. My DD is at Uni, she got loans and gets nothing from me/her dad, I only pay her mobile. She works in the week and every holiday. Blaming your predicament on foreign workers is insulting.

Oh the irony of your argument Xenia! If blood was to be a bais of nationality, than I'd be British and my OH wouldn't be as my grand parents were British, his were not, they came in this country after the war, you know at a time when Brits opened their arms to the same people they are now saying are not welcome.

Unbelievably, I have family members, even close ones who voted to leave. Their argument? Its not people like you we don't want. Well, how honourable, sadly, I'm affected just the same. When I mentioned that I now needed to pay £65 to register to stay in this country, they didn't believe at first. When I asked them if they'd pay the £65 or even the £2000 just to be totally sure I could stay here for the rest of my life, all I got back is silence.

You're being disingenuous.

Is that a new way of spelling "correct" ?

Numerous members of the government including the PM have directly referred to leaving the jurisdiction of the ECHR as part of Brexit.

Being a member of the government does not provide immunity from being a bit thick.

The ECHR has nothing to do with the EU. If the EU didn't exists, the ECHR would. If anyone wanted the UK to leave the ECHR, then the only way of doing so ... is to leave the ECHR.

Any, for all their grumbling, no party has every been stupid enough (although times change) to make leaving the ECHR a manifesto pledge. Probably because they read the report Cameron commissioned about a "British Bill of Rights" and agreed with the summary that the best place for such discussions is a long way into the future.

I realise I’m late to the party this thread is, but as a German who’s lived & worked in the UK for 15 years, has a career, partner, child and house in the UK I find the whole situation absurd. I don’t give a hoot about the £65. What makes me sad and feel unwelcome, is the fact I came here when I was allowed to without restrictions. I have contributed to society without ever claiming benefits, made my life here, because I could. I came here BECAUSE of my other half. Now I have to apply to stay? Why? If and when we leave the EU, new people entering under new rules - I get that. But you are asking me retrospectively to confirm I’m ok to stay. After all this time? When I feel more British than German? I can’t get over it. Pass the .

People keep bringing up how difficult it is to apply for a green card or visa in the US, and why £65 is a big deal.

As an EU citizen who has lived and worked here for ten years, here's my two pence...

People who have to apply to live and work in the US haven't lived and built a life there and certainly haven't contributed to the system. We have. I moved here when I turned 18 which means I have only ever paid taxes in this country. It feels like a betrayal, like a punch in the stomach for us who believed in this system and paid money in it. All this uncertainty and the language used around immigration policies is what has infuriated most of us and the £65 is just the cherry on top.