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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Is my neighbour being cruel to her child?

110 replies

Bigdad74 · 27/12/2018 13:40

I live in the UK. I have a neighbour from Eastern Europe who has some strange ideas about parenting. She is a single mother of two boys aged 10 and 4. I have no doubt whatsoever that she loves her children. However it has recently come to light that she is taking the youngest out walking their dog, 2 or 3 times a night, actually in the middle of the night when everyone else is in bed. It is winter time and I find this bizarre. She claims it is to build up his immune system. Meanwhile her 10 year old is left asleep alone in the house. I am greatly concerned.

OP posts:
blackbunny · 27/12/2018 14:44

I would think she may be causing problems for the child when it reaches school age. They’ll be too tired to concentrate in the day if they’re out of bed for hours in the night.

abacucat · 27/12/2018 14:45

Also before electric light, everyone seemed to have had two sleeps at night, with a break in the middle - a small and big sleep. The way we sleep now is because of the lives we live, it is not actually natural.

abacucat · 27/12/2018 14:45

bunny Or maybe she will stop doing it then?

WorraLiberty · 27/12/2018 14:47

My neighbour's kids settled into their own bedtime routines once they started school.

They're still not 'sent' to bed now but they know when they're tired and they take themselves off.

Original poster
Bigdad74 · 27/12/2018 14:48

The neighbour is a good friend of the family. I mentioned her cultural background as I think it is valid to the discussion. Different cultures have different beliefs. We are far from nosey. Heard them a couple of times and it came up one time in conversation with my wife. If you have ever fallen asleep outdoors you will know that you tend to wake up cold. This was what the neighbour said to my wife. I posted this because I was interested in people's views. Obviously having concerns about odd behaviour is now grounds to be slated.

OP posts:
Camomila · 27/12/2018 14:49

I think its generally a bit tough having your dc in a foreign country.
Especially if what you are taught in your country is good/fosters independence/is seen as irresponsible in your new country.

If it 'helps' there are quite a few normal English parenting things I could imagine someone writing a concerned post on the Italian version of mumsnet about! So I think everyone wanders if they see someone doing something really different from the norm.

WorraLiberty · 27/12/2018 14:52

She shouldn't be leaving her 10yr old home alone for so long though IMO.

Having said that, I'm not sure I believe the park bench story. I'm not sure why though but if it is true, then hopefully it was a one-off.

Not least because the pair of them could've been attacked.

thebabessavedme · 27/12/2018 14:54

i have noticed that the children of our EE neighbours appear to have a childhood very similar to mine (born early 60s) they are free to roam, play in the street and go home when it gets dark - on sunday it is also a huge 'family day', best clothes are worn, all seem to get together, food is cooked on a bbq outside ALL year (odd to us but seems totally normal to them) my dgs loves to join in with them playing in the street Grin

watching them i feel as though i have stepped back into 1968

abacucat · 27/12/2018 14:57

I agree it is very tough to raise kids in a different culture from your own. Plenty of things that are seen as common sense on here, would be slated if this board was used mainly by people from certain cultures who rear children very differently.

Original poster
Bigdad74 · 27/12/2018 15:01

I think the best bet is to not get involved. I personally do not think it is right to drag little kids out in the middle of the night but thought it made an interesting post. The kids are well looked after and loved and that is all that really matters I suppose.

OP posts:
Racecardriver · 27/12/2018 15:06

Well taking a four year old outfit a walk of a few miles is good. The cold air is not necessarily good but certainly not harmful (some would disagree, in many cultures it is common practice to take well dressed children out in the cold because it’s supposed to be good for them). The only issue I can see is sleep. But then again it’s actually a more natural sleep pattern to go to sleep early, wake for an hour or two and then go back to sleep again. Provided the child gets enough sleep that’s not an issue either. Leaving a ten year old at home alone is also boarderline. I wouldn’t be comfortable but I doubt it’s ebdangering the child in any way.

Grannyannex · 27/12/2018 15:09

Is there any chance the boy is waking the Mum? Possibly he wakes at the end of every sleep cycle

brizzledrizzle · 27/12/2018 15:16

Maybe OP sees her neighbour when she's out doing a canine related activity herself?

XiCi · 27/12/2018 15:23

If my 3 year old woke up at 3am there's no way I'd be thinking of getting us both dressed and going for a 3 mile walk to the park. I can't believe people are saying that this is not odd.

abacucat · 27/12/2018 15:26

Xi Yes odd for British culture. People are not disputing that. But not automatically odd everywhere. And odd i very different from cruel.

XiCi · 27/12/2018 15:33

Well it would be cruel if the child were being woken up specifically to go on long walks. That would have been hell for me as a child (and now) to have my sleep disturbed like that. I've travelled alot and lived in countries across 3 continents and can't think of ever coming across children being woken to be taken on 3am walks!

Dotty1970 · 27/12/2018 15:38

How do you know how many miles they walkConfusedand how much sleep he's getting

Orchiddingme · 27/12/2018 15:40

My guess is that she has to take the dog out anyway and can't leave the 4 year old, so is making up some excuse.

How do you know it is 2/3 times every night? I doubt this from your evidence.

That said, if the child seems thin, tired or otherwise not ok, I would alert someone.

This isn't a known cultural thing in the eastern european countries I know (more than one), in fact, most wrap their children up in ridiculous amounts of layer and don't take them out in the cold. They certainly don't deliberately expose them to the cold as they know how dangerous it is.

She could be odd, or even abusive. Leaving a 10 year old at night is NOT ok either- what if he needed someone. I don't think that social services would find a 10 year old left alone at 2am ok at all, or numerous nightly wakings for a small child.

I wouldn't report on what you've seen, as you haven't seen that much. If I genuinely thought there was a real mental health issue going on which there might be as this isn't typical or normal or ok behaviour (to the 10 year old let alone the 4 year old) then reporting might look the better thing to do.

Haffdonga · 27/12/2018 15:50

Responses to posts on MN about how other people treat their dcs invariably fall in to one of two camps. You've posted this so you have to choose now.

Either - you are interfering, judgemental and (if ethnicity is mentioned) clearly racist.

Or - this is abuse and you should phone NSPCC, SS and CALL THE POLICE NOW! (that bit is always written in caps). OMG I can't believe you haven't called the police yet, that poor child etc etc

In this case the behaviour is strange enough to be concerning as it sounds like she is choosing to be out of the house for extensive periods of time at night . Sleeping on a cold park bench at night is not normal for anybody of any culture if there is a safe warm home with a ten year old in it. I would report to the older dc's school. They will have a fuller picture of the family.

BookMeOnTheSudExpress · 27/12/2018 15:50

We've gone from her being eccentric, a little crazy and cruel to the OP backpedaling like an Olympic champion at it and now suggesting his OP was to provoke an "interesting discussion"
Which indeed it would have been, without the thinly veiled xenophobia and accusations of "crazy" and "cruel" that came first.

Bloominglovely · 27/12/2018 16:02

Why was the OP's post xenophobic? If the post had been about an English person, many people would have posted an entirely different response! This rush to be 'understanding' of other people's clearly eccentric ways in a frantic bid to come across as 'accepting' is hypocritical.

MadMum101 · 27/12/2018 16:08

So if the OP had omitted to mention that the family was EE would the replies have been the same I wonder?

I'm married to an EE. His family are dotted around EE. This would be seen as worrying by them and unheard of unless the younger son had some sort of SN or a skin allergy caused by sunlight. In that case I'd expect the mother to give the neighbours a heads up in case of a fire or break in while the older child is alone.

It's dangerous for the mum and child, and the child left alone in the house sleep.

A dog does not need a walk in the early hours, let alone multiple onesHmm.

Do they live on a flat? If in a house you'd let the dog into the garden to toilet surely during the night.

If you're friendly I'd tell her your concerns OP. See what her reasoning is and then report to SS if it sounds like she has MH issues which are putting her DC at risk.

whatsthestory123 · 27/12/2018 16:29

this is interesting hearing about child rearing in other cultures

but do many cultures not have bedtimes,what happens when they go to school?

OneStepSideways · 27/12/2018 16:32

Maybe the child keeps waking up and can't go back to sleep without exercise? Maybe he sleeps in the day and is awake at night? Or sleeps in shorter blocks eg 7pm-12am then 7am-12pm. Not everyone's sleep patterns are the same.

Limensoda · 27/12/2018 16:48

You should either interrogate the mother.....or.....mind your own business.