in wanting to thrash dd to within an inch of her life?

[Elasticwoman]

I caught her in the act of stealing from my purse. It is not the first time. Am incandescent with rage.

Can any one suggest non-violent but effective remedy to correcting lightfingered and economical with the actualite dd? (She is almost as big as me so might thrash me back.)

I don't think the responses have been hostile; mine certainly weren't intended to be.

I think what people have been trying to point out is that this situation may be about a lot more than either the food or the stealing, and that it needs careful and considered handling if it's not to become part of a damaging cycle that might have much more far-reaching consequences than you've necessarily anticipated.

I don't know you, your daughter, or your family, and anything I'm saying is based on a necessarily partial view that comes only from what you've said. But from your description of the broader situation, I would say it's incredibly similar to the one that set up years of painful and damaging power struggles between me and my own mother, of which six years of eating disorders were only the most obvious result.

I can see how outraged you must feel about the situation, but even so, I think you need to look behind it to see what your daughter is really trying to communicate about her needs here. And I can guarantee (99%?) that it's not about either the food or the money.

May lock away your purse. Our children can take money they need from me. I trust them. Once they get to a certain age I wouldn't presume to control what they eat - they know what is a healthy diet and they pass from the stage of parental control to being in charge of themselves and feeling trusted is part of that.

Clearly this child feels food is an issue. She may be a sugar addict of some kind - look at the little sugar addicts book or www.radiantrecovery.com site for how you can help her and don't assume this is her fault. It's a bit like drugs or alcohol. I bet a lot of mumsnetters have driven to the corner shop to get chocolate from time to time - those urges are huge.

Teenagers' job in forging a life separate from the home is to be as objectionable as possible. It peaks around 13 - 15 and then they turn lovely again. May be go on a parenting of teenagers' course.

I don't have teenagers and I never stole from my parents but I have suffered from eating disorders in the (now distant) past. My issues with food began at about 11 when I had a bit of puppy fat and my mum "banned" certain foods for me (but not for my brother - he was skinny as a rake). I used to take biscuits, chocolate, bread from the kitchen cupboard when no one was looking and eat them alone in my room.

This was the start of my very unhealthy relationship with food which marred my teenage years and twenties. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

Hang on - why "taking" not stealing? doesn't make it any better. "taking" anything without permission is STEALING. Esp if it relates to money that belongs to someone else. If that stolen money is then spent on stuff -food, records, clothes, whatever - then I think there is an absolute right to lay down the law in one's own household.

If children/ Teenagers don't learn to respect their family's possessions how are they going to learn to respect anyone elses? Or is it ok to take from mum's purse? what about grandma? Or the lederly lady who's dropped in for a cuppa?

Elasticwoman - I'm not suggesting this is your DD!!!!! I'm just adding it into the pile coz' i'm getting cross that so many people seem to be rather critical!

For the record however, I do agree the food thing may be somemthing deeper, and may need handling differently from the money pinching.

Taking money to feed your addiction is classic and it doesn't matter if it's drugs or sugar - it's not as simple as saying the person is responsible.

no-one has actually established that this is about an addiction

It could quite simply be that edible things are the easiest to hide, and are cheap and easy to purchase. As others have suggested perhaps it is simply because they are seen as "restricted" or its a bit rebellious - lets not write the poor girl off with an eating disorder! It's something that perhaps should be loked into and RULED out, but no-way has the girl been diagnosed.

I bought sweets and fizzy drinks with stolen 20p's as a child - I felt too guilty to nick more and I knew my mum would catch me - but I don't have an eating disorder, it was just my bit of rebellion

Thanks for your support, Growingbagpuss.

Libra I am really sorry you are going through this too with your ds, but it does make me feel a bit better that I am not the only one. Could I just say about your situation, that schools don't want kids going out of school to the chipshop or into town at lunchtime, but it's very difficult for them to police it. Consequently there is peer pressure on many of them (eg your ds) to go. My dd takes packed lunch which she makes herself. This is partly because lunch hour is only 40 mins and I don't want her standing in the queue at the canteen all that time, then finding they've run out of what she wants.

Xenia, are your children really allowed to "take money they need" from you, without asking for it? Or have I misunderstood?
And btw, it's more a Doritos & Salsa addiction than sugar, but she does buy sweets as well.

To answer your point growingbagpuss, I just feel it is very important not to take up entrenched positions with pre-teens/teens.

I speak as the mother of a 10.5 year old dd and a a much older dd.

At the end of the day they just want you to love them and while you can "lay the law down" it is better done without over emoting imo

Stealing from your parents is horrible, I don't think the fact that quite a few people seem to have done it makes it any more acceptable. But people are concerned that your child may have a problem with her eating habits and that how you react could make a possible problem into a full blown one. Some comments have been harshly expressed but that's the problem with internet sites.

Libra I give mine 8 pounds for lunch but 30p for pasta is cheaper than our canteen. Next year prices are likely to rise so it will probably have to be more. Is your son stealing to keep up his savings for his guitar or because he wants to be part of the gang? I'd be far crosser about the first one! In our house we have double punishment if you lie about doing something wrong - you get punished from the wrongdoing and again for being dishonest. In this case I'd probably say I realised after talking to friends that perhaps he needed more lunch money - and we'd discuss what was reasonable - but he should have asked. So he would still be punished for stealing (packed lunch sounds good) and punished for lying. For that I'd probably ground them as I couldn't trust them to come home on time.

One of the kids asked what I was doing so I asked if they'd ever stolen from me. They said they didn't need to as they got a big enough monthly allowance. Obviously not awake yet as they normally argue they need more - however they know they'll be told to earn it with more chores if they ask for too much.

I've never had a child taking money from me so I've not had to deal with the issue. Many teenagers are addicted to drugs, sugar, alcohol and I would much rather they stole from me than stole from friends or shops because then I could address the addiction without police involvement. If she's just greedy billy bunter type wanting to buy some extra buns to eat in the room may be the problem is lack of foods she needs at home or she needs to be moved to a sugar free diet or whatever.

But they can take money they need. We seem to have an equilibrium - they know what they can have and ask for and I don't think we have any conflicts about money really. I buy their food. There is a shopping list in the kitchen people can add just about anything to within reason and then I order it on line once a week. if we run out - tough unless they can persuade the 3 children who have passed their driving test to take them out to buy provisions.

I suppose we have a kind of trust. They can also use my credit card on line but they need to ask for that. When it once got to a point where I thought too much was being spent at Amazon I reined it in and now the older 3 are on a fixed allowance as they're at university and I made them all move to their own Amazon accounts with their own bank cards.

re tatt I've never actually punished a child ever... but I suppose that just shows how different parenting styles people have.

It's clear that you are worried about your daughter, but I think you are not taking some of the comments made in the spirit in which they were intended.

You say your daughter has access to her Grandad's money and can spend it as she pleases. In the next sentence you say that you frisk her when she comes in the door - how on earth can she be allowed to spend her money with any freedom if she is scared that you'll bust her as soon as she steps inside the front door.

There is no shadow of a doubt in my mind, that if your daughter has stolen money to buy junk food (even if it's once) and more importantly, if she is eating junk food secretly - that she has an issue with food. Most likely and hopefully it's something you can sort out now before it's not too late.

Making her feel like a criminal for her habit by frisking her, will on cause more problems in the long term.

Talk to her. Find out what her issues are. Treat her with a bit of respect and give her credit for her maturity (even if you don't see it).

I hope you sort this out soon.

dejags
x

I don't believ in punishment, just reason and my father's a psychiatrist, but may be I was just lucky with reasonably well behaved children. There are plenty of ways to skin a cat.

Reasonable amount of money? I've had children for 22 years so it's hard to generalise. It depends how much the family earns and the children need. The 8 year olds don't get pocket money but if they need something and it's reasonable they can have it. They lost the football last week and got a new one which I paid for. I don't remember when the others were 10 - 12 them really needing too much money for anything. At one point I think when they were 13+ they got £50 a month by standing order but we have quite a high income so the figures themselves aren't really an answer. The aim is to ensure they realise they aren't supported for life and need to forge their own lives and that there is no expectation of being kept into adulthood.

bolleaux xenia
my father was a tosser - i am not one
my husband is a surgeon my children cant hold a knife

Dejags - probs with daughter happened long before she was ever searched, and as her thieving and lying continued after we used all the talking/listening strategies, we started to get desperate. Evidence of binge eating in bedroom made us feel she had too much access to hard cash, as well as unhappy about the bad eating habit.

Xenia - I think the easy access to cash that your family enjoy is only possible on a large budget, so doesn't apply to most of us.

And as for referring to my dd as a "greedy billy bunter type", with your usual tact and diplomacy; don't you mean Bessie Bunter, you hubblebubbletoilntrouble type?

But thanks for deflecting my anger from dd.
Nothing untoward has happened since my OP, although I haven't looked under/behind her bed recently.

Ah but that begs the question of whether we should look under children's beds, in their diaries, on their facebook pages etc. Very interesting privacy issues.

I havent read all the thread but maybe she should have a sweet and crisp allowance, so much she can have a week if she stops stealing from your purse.

Ask Custy re privacy issue, (see previous Custy "rant"). Totally agree with her too!!

By Justaboutmanaging on Sat 30-Jun-07 12:07:35
Wow Xenia, how have you managed without punishing a child ever?
And what do you see as a 'reasonable' amount of money?

//Justaboutmanaging - she manages without punishment because she only likes to spend a limited amount of time with her children and has the nanny do the rest. I guess the access to money asuages the guilt. Yeah yeah, so call me a bitch, i dont care

can i take that back (sorry xenia - you know i love you really)

Not sure. Perhaps it's just that I worked full time so I could dodge having to punish anyone. I suppose I just talk to them and we sort things out. No one has ever gone off the rails.

Reasonable amount of money? Impossible to answer. The three at university get £100 a week (plus fees and rent) by standing order provided they take out no loans or debts. The twins get nothing because they're only 8 and don't really need cash. As I said below the older ones in mid teens got £50 a month but that's just us here and our lives. Everyone differs in their income and earning capacity. Children whose mother's don't earn much get less to spend I presume.

le, no guilt and they're at full time school. We don't really have a proper nanny. The youngest aren't in shops so they wouldn't need or want money. If you go to school and then come home and don't pass or go in a shop you don't need money.

Should we look under children's beds? There speaks the mother who has a cleaner. If your cleaner doesn't go under the beds you should sack her.