in wanting to thrash dd to within an inch of her life?

[Elasticwoman]

I caught her in the act of stealing from my purse. It is not the first time. Am incandescent with rage.

Can any one suggest non-violent but effective remedy to correcting lightfingered and economical with the actualite dd? (She is almost as big as me so might thrash me back.)

it sounds like you have exactly the set up we had as children - but by 12 I was earning a tiny bit of pocket money by helping at home - and could spend it on what I wanted.

Interestingly - I spent it on sweets because we didn't have them - BUT - I was never overweight in anywya - so if my Mum knew about it, she certainly had no cause for concern.

I personally think yuor set up is fab - and if I can be in that position by the time my DC are your DD's age, I'll be v proud to have resisted the consumerism. Not having things does not harm you.

All I would say is, perhaps she needs just a little more freedom with money - space to get it wrong - and learn on her own. As other people have said - when its gone, its gone - and if you regulate what she buys, by physically providing the money only once you've agreed on the purchase - she can't ever get it wrong.

Regarding the stealing - is feeling ashamed enough for her? I know that losing my parents respect was my greatest fear, and earning it back was the hardest thing if i'd done anything awful.

Good Luck.

I take on board what you have all said about giving her more money of her own to budget with, but don't forget she gets pretty regular pocket money in hard cash from her generous grandpa.

Sweets and crisps are not forbidden in our house - some people seem to have the wrong impression - I just don't buy crisps in bulk from the supermarket. Cakes and biscuits are usually home-made.

As for grounding her: she doesn't go out on her own in the evenings, she's still only 12 and I have to let her go to and from school on her own.

I am concerned about her eating habits. She has always had a big, healthy appetite, until recently when she has taken to leaving her meal, and bingeing on junk in secret.

Up to now I have put aside change for her busfares in a jar in the kitchen, and the other day I saw that more had gone than she had needed for the bus this week. On challenging her about it, she made up some ridiculous lie about accidentally taking too much money and giving it to the busdriver who failed to give her any change. So I said right, well I put in enough for the week and I'm not topping it up before next week so you can either use your own money or walk. (School is 2.5 miles/45 mins walk away). It was shortly after that conversation I found her delving into my purse.

Dh and I are seriously thinking of giving her the week's busfares on Monday now, and letting her decide for herself whether to walk or buy sweets with it.

She already has to earn pocket money with chores.

busfare money at the start of the week sounds a good idea. when she has run out by friday she will have to walk. She will soon learn.

Also food sounds like a major issure for her even though it doesnt seem like it. It sounds like she is trying to hide what she is eating. Not sure what you can do about this.

and the walking will be good exercise I think you have the right approach - no easy route just consistency and "stealing is wrong" I think a lot of kids think stealing from their parents if different and need to be taught that you should never tkae what isn;t yours

In conversation with her father it came out that she thought stealing from me was not the same as stealing from some one else.

Re the ipod and mobile phone deprivation: she could have either of these if she wanted them enough, as she usually gets enough money from various relatives on her birthday to be able to afford such things. She did talk about buying an MP3 player last birthday but in the end did something else with the money.

i think giving a 12 year old a weeks worth of money and expecting them to be adult about it "or walk" is quite frankly ridiculous.

i would be incandescent with rage and quiety yet menacingly lecture "HOW VERY FUCKING DARE YOU, MY money my house my rules - you want money get a job you lying little runt.

it seems quite clear that her drug of choice is sweets.

therefore i would suggest a lockable cupboard with crisp and biscuits in. and a bag of crisp after tea.

i find it veryd isrespectful not to eat tea, its wasteful and disrespectful of my time as i hve been working allf ucking day to have eaten before i make tea and then say i don't want it"

i let my views be known.

it does sound like your overlyanal about sweet ood despie your mumblings to the contrary, and forbidden fruit is always the sweetest.

we have fruit before tea rule - one piece. itsa long time to wait from dinner time at school until 6oclock in my house.

and then if we have sweet stuff in - which we sometimes do, then we have that after tea.

spot on custy!

yeh i have a lockable cupboard to stop mine pilfering all the goodies , esp my teenager

dd1 has had her pocket money stopped for 2 weeks because she tried to diddle ds1 out of his

he asked her to get him something in town, she tried to pretend it was worth more than it was and keep the rest of the cash, but she got busted by dd2 and her friend, who were with her at the time of purchase

she has to pay him back the difference out of hte 2 weeks money and lose the rest

custardo - a 12 yr old can count can' they? do simple adding, subtraction, multiplication? Of course a 12 yr old can be given a weeks bus money and be expected to cope!

When on earth are they going to learn otherwise?

This world is upside down - we think children can be trusted with mobile phones, ipods, internet access etc... but not a weeks worth of bus money.... AAARRGGH

custy - what crisps and biscuits? I don't buy them. Are you suggesting that I start frequenting the crisp and biscuit aisles that I have until now avoided?

Please explain "overly anal"

Why are you telling us how outraged you'd be? Do you think I'm not? I've already expressed my fury in the OP, and yes I have let dd know how I feel.

By the way, we have taken to frisking her when she comes in the house and searching her bag. We would not mind the odd packet of sweets or crisps but she is buying several of everything, + fizzy drinks.

Amazingly she still has a mouth full of perfect teeth, but I can't see it going on much longer unless I can stop this sweets/crisps habit.

god no elasticwoman - don't change your shopping habits whatever you do!

it does sound a little as though she is pushing things to see how far they can go... what does she REALLY gain? Is she merely gaining more and more attention?

Can you rope her G/Parents in, and ask them not to give her money until her behaviour calms down - at least if you can cut of legitimate sources of income, you can ignore the silly behaviour, and know that you have to be extra careful.

Do you have other children? have you tried reverse psychology, and extra rewarding their good behaviour? It might make her think about positive attention being better than negative?

Elastic, I can't imagine what you searching her bag and pockets must be doing to the trust and respect in your family, and to your dd's self-esteem

I know you are worried about her health - but there are more important things in life than being a bit overweight, or eating too much junk food, or even having to have fillings.

She can get a healthy food habit and lose weight if she decides she wants to. But I am not so sure your relationship, and the honesty and trust that should be there between you, can be so easily rescued.

Can't you get her a bus pass rather than giving her money for fares? It'd still teach her to be responsible for something and if she lost it, she'd 'have to walk' for the remainder of that week. However, I would not be happy at my 12-yr old dd walking for 45 minutes to or from school even depending on the area. I wouldn't walk for 45 minutes to go to work (30 minutes walk each way is my top limit) so I certainly wouldn't expect a child to walk it twice a day, carrying school equipment. But then I do live in London .

I don't think anyone is suggesting that you stock crisps etc if you've not done so in the past but perhaps a daily ration of less healthy food might take away her urges to eat chocolate/crisps etc. At 35 I still binge on junk food around the time of my period, a relatively healthy sponge cake with custard or perhaps some fruit for dessert, say, doesn't come near satisfying my urge for sugar and salty snacks. And I'm old enough to know better .

I agree with F&Z about not searching for things as that will destroy trust between you - My mum spotted I'd got a different pencil case once and accused me of stealing it as she didn't believe me when I told her I'd bought it with my pocket money at newsagents near my school some months before. That really stung as there was no truth in the matter. Had I really stolen it then this would not have been a conducive atmosphere to discuss why as it simply descended into a slanging match. I can understand she was frightened that I'd nicked it but she'd also forgotten that I simply never spent my pocket money as a rule so I had plenty to spend if and when I chose to - and I had chosen to and also that I was a young woman so was also entitled to a bit of reasonable privacy. I was 15 at the time.

blimey, you guys should take my teenage DD for a month, then see if you are still going on about crisps and sweets .

Elastic, i too would be incandescent (love that turn of phrase} and would let her now that she has abused your trust and needs to earn it back again. So yes, she will feel resentful about you not trusting her and searching her bag etc but she gave you reason to not trust her so........FWIW my dd has been a demon in the past few years but she SEEMS to be coming out of the tunnel now. I have had to take a step back as a parent at times and that hurts but we are starting to like each other again. Dont have time to go into my situation just now as i am at work, but parenting to a teenager is the hardest thing ive ever had to do

I agree with you lucyellensmum - and it starts at about 11...

great, thanks stledger another 9 years before i have to go through it all again - i must be mad

well I have teens and if they stole from me they would pay it back and also lose pocket money - probably of the same amount. If they take food without asking that would be stealing, we have no lockable cupboards. There is a fruit bowl and they can help themselves to that, anything else they want outside mealtimes they ask for. Sweets are provided once a week, if they have earned them, and if they want more they buy their own.

They can buy what they like with pocket money, I think learning to manage money is important.

A child who was overweight from eating too many sweets and cakes would be facing compulsory exercise of some type but I wouldn't stop them eating what they wanted.

I threaten mine with eating a plate of sprouts when they misbehave

blimey, i thought i was a strict mother, im positively lax compared to you lot, if it is in my cupboard then my children are welcome to take it and would only be expected to ask if it were the last one etc. If there were weight/health issues i wouldnt keep unhealthy foods in the house as that is hardly fair is it.

12 year old can count

but a 12 year old does not have adult impulse control

That is why their crimes are not tried in an adult court of law.

Pocket money is to teach control of money, not to withold until they have already learned control of money.

Thanks Dinosaur, that is a consolation.

"12 year olds not tried in an adult court of law." what sort of court tried the 10 year old childkillers in the Bulger case then?

I used to get the bus to school.

Each morning my mum would lay out 2x bus fare and lunch money if no packed lunch

lunch money usually got spent on sweets admittedly, but i NEVER spent my bus money - the thought of walking!

I dont agree with searching your teenage daughter, such an invasion of privacy for a 12yr old.

Fruit as and when they want, and who cares about a small choccy bar or pkt of crisps a day?

Sorry, but I would hate to think I would control my daughters like the way you seem to be, to me its no wonder she is rebelling.