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Original poster

To think late-term abortion rules may need tightening up?

999 replies

FestiveNut · 23/12/2018 09:11

Should people be able to abort healthy fetuses in a low risk pregnancy past 20 weeks gestation?

I read a very sad story concerning this earlier. I considered myself pro-choice in all circumstances but this thread has caused me to question that.

Should the threshold be lowered?

OP posts:
GunpowderGelatine · 25/12/2018 19:33

A yay, a link from the worlds leading woman hating paper. Hurrah!

Neweternal · 25/12/2018 19:34

I had a friend who had three abortions and the doctors refused the fourth. Apparently 3 was your lot. She now has a 20 year old girl and never got pregnant again.

pointythings · 25/12/2018 19:36

Neweternal so in your first link the abortion was done to save the life of the mother, it didn't work, the child survived. So clearly the doctors screwed up - the normal procedure of fatal injection to the heart was botched or not followed.

Your second link is from a pro-life website.

Your third link - so what? IMO if an abortion is messed up to that extent then some form of action is needed - and often that will be an attempt at keeping the baby alive because other options are traumatic for everyone. Doesn't mean the choice to abort was invalid in the first place.

You're pro-life. You don't want anyone to have an abortion. You're with MamaDane in that you would want a rape victim forced to carry a pregnancy to term.

I am glad your opinions are not law.

GunpowderGelatine · 25/12/2018 19:36

@ElonMask once again you're not making sense. Who am I, or any female, trusting with a decision about my body that has as big an impact as someone forcing a woman to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term?

thebaronetofcockburn · 25/12/2018 19:37

I had a friend who had three abortions and the doctors refused the fourth. Apparently 3 was your lot.

Glad we don't live in a place that dictates reproductive decisions to women.

GunpowderGelatine · 25/12/2018 19:37

And yes, it absolutely is forcing a woman to have a baby she doesn't want by refusing an abortion. I don't give a rats arse if most people agree with it - most people (actually all people) have fuck all right to a day in what another woman does with her body. That is not how democracy works FYI

Neweternal · 25/12/2018 19:37

@GunpowderGelatine They are a living being though. It's a difficult one if the mother required cancer treatment and was a single parent to 5 kids I could understand how in that case the mother's life is more important.

MsLucyLastic · 25/12/2018 19:37

GunpowderGelatine it is certainly not my intention to sound like a Kelly Clever Clogs. I have just sat through lots of medical ethics lectures and know medics who are on the BMA panel to discuss ethics around matters such as euthanasia. Apologies if I should have left this background at the door of the thread!

Again, I can only reiterate that whilst most extreme situations will happen very rarely, the law operates to precisely define such parameters, and "it hardly even happens" isn't a consideration. If it COULD happen, it needs to be legislated for.

CosmicCanary · 25/12/2018 19:37

There are more babies left to die in sewers/dumpters/woods then there are born "alive" after an abortion.

This thread is about LOWERING the abortion cut off not increasing it. So all those going on about babies born alive at 26 weeks need to RTT.

ElonMask · 25/12/2018 19:38

FruitCider

Errrrr ok

Worse things than being forced to endure a pregnancy and birth of a baby that you can't keep, with the baby growing up into an adult knowing they were born to a mother in prison who could simply not taking gear? I can't think of much worse actually. It can't get much worse for the mother or the foetus at this point.

So them never bring born in the first place would be worse Confused so its actually better they were not aborted ?

GunpowderGelatine · 25/12/2018 19:39

Ah these anti-choice people always know a woman who had 3 abortions (it ALWAYS three) then the tart learnt her lesson by the fourth one Hmm in the UK that is 100% not the policy on women seeking terminations. Thank god.

Neweternal · 25/12/2018 19:40

@thebaronetofcockburn This occurred in the Uk in the early 2000

GunpowderGelatine · 25/12/2018 19:40

They are a living being though.

They're not, and the law disagrees with you.

It's a difficult one if the mother required cancer treatment and was a single parent to 5 kids I could understand how in that case the mother's life is more important

It's not difficult - it's up to the woman to decide.

Incidentally how do you think medics should come to these subjective moral conclusions - if it was a 20yo seeming an abortion after a ONS simply because she doesn't want a baby would you say that's reasonable?

CosmicCanary · 25/12/2018 19:41

GunpowderGelatineThey are a living being though. It's a difficult one if the mother required cancer treatment and was a single parent to 5 kids I could understand how in that case the mother's life is more important.

Not YOUR BODY not your choice.

The end.

Neweternal · 25/12/2018 19:41

@GunpowderGelatine I swear she was refused an abortion! She was livid!

ElonMask · 25/12/2018 19:41

I don't give a rats arse if most people agree with it - most people (actually all people) have fuck all right to a day in what another woman does with her body. That is not how democracy works FYI

We've been over this already. And it is how a national health service in a democracy works.

GunpowderGelatine · 25/12/2018 19:42

So them never bring born in the first place would be worse  so its actually better they were not aborted ?

If that's what the mother decides then he. It is better. Why does anyone else ever get to decide that.

I'll say it time and again - trust. Women.

GunpowderGelatine · 25/12/2018 19:43

I don't blame her @Neweternal that is absolutely outrageous that they punished her by forcing her to give birth

FruitCider · 25/12/2018 19:43

Neweternal your link is extremely sensationalist.

Here's what generally happens in an abortion between 15 and 21 weeks.

DONT READ IF YOU MAY FIND THE CONTENTS DISTRESSING

Surgical dilation and evacuation
The cervix is dilated using increasing size rods, before a vacuum curette is inserted. The suction is turned on next to the fetal chest wall, ensuring the foetus dies immediately as the heart, lungs and abdomen contents are removed. The remaining bony structures are then pulled out with narrow forceps - at this point it may be necessary to dismember the foetus so it can fit through the cervix as described in that terrible article Neweternal linked to. Foetuses are not killed by having their skulls crushed or have limbs ripped off whilst their heart is still beating!

ElonMask · 25/12/2018 19:43

Not YOUR BODY not your choice.

Does this also apply to e.g..commercial surrogacy ?

PineapplePower · 25/12/2018 19:43

Meanwhile, back on Planet Reality, women have terminated for a variety of reasons, including finances, and capitalist societies will never be caring, so thankfully we have access to safe, legal abortion till 24 weeks and also because forcing women who don't want to be pregnant to remain so is fucking barbaric

The PP is on your side. She’s in support of abortion up to 24 weeks. No need to give out to her; she’s talking about a very specific circumstance.

People are talking like, if there was no limit then there'd be women at 39 weeks terminating babies

I agree it would be incredibly rare, so I don’t see why the law should change as there’s no demand for this. Late-term abortions are still necessary for medical reasons, as well.

I’m just annoyed that some PPs seem unaware that there’s a limit and there’s a good reason for it too.

It plays right into the pro-life lobby to pretend that women are allowed to pop into an abortion clinic at any point in pregnancy and blammo 10 minutes later you are done.

These late-term abortions are physically and emotionally difficult, require multi-day hospital stays, and are performed for women on behalf of their much-wanted child. That’s why they are reserved for women who have a pressing medical need.

GunpowderGelatine · 25/12/2018 19:45

@ElonMask I can 100% guarantee that no NHS Trust looks at what random people who may or may have not taken part in a survey not affiliated with the NHS (no one has ever asked me in this survey BTW) day and Male decision about individual health care based on that. I have worked in the NHS, that's not how policies are made and I don't know why you think that's the case

FruitCider · 25/12/2018 19:45

Not usually no, but I'm fairly sure I've heard of it happening on rare occasions.

No, it's confirmed there is no fetal heart beat before the foetus is removed. Not heard of it happening in the uk!

GunpowderGelatine · 25/12/2018 19:45

PS the NHS is in no way shape or form a democracy. Foundation Trusts have influential members but they cannot decide things that affect individual patient care like the decisions on an abortion

MsLucyLastic · 25/12/2018 19:45

Anyway, I am out. It is tiresome trying to explain reality to extremists. Fortunately, they will never get their way, not least because the rest of society is repulsed by what they suggest.

Perhaps if they were able to argue their point in a way that was effective and made sense, the situation would be different. This thread shows that this is unlikely to happen in the future.