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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think late-term abortion rules may need tightening up?

999 replies

FestiveNut · 23/12/2018 09:11

Should people be able to abort healthy fetuses in a low risk pregnancy past 20 weeks gestation?

I read a very sad story concerning this earlier. I considered myself pro-choice in all circumstances but this thread has caused me to question that.

Should the threshold be lowered?

OP posts:
JacquesHammer · 24/12/2018 16:22

Oh god are we going to have to do the very simple explanation thing?

You quoted my comment “Don’t be so arrogant as to tell me what I can do with my uterus”.

I made that comment in direct response (do you understand what that means?) to a comment by NowImFound who was discussing banning abortion full stop.

So maybe go and read again, and stop trying to use comments out of context.

I mean, if you don’t understand this I can happily take a screen shot for you.

ElonMask · 24/12/2018 16:22

There is no argument to be had when people write something and then say it doesn't represent their views.

I don't think you'd get a healthy kidney removed in the UK on the NHS, aside from living donation. The NHS has better places to allocate funding

Indeed the NHS does have better things to do than ensuring I can get a kidney removed for any reason i can come up with, or that a 35 week pregnant woman can get an abortion as soon as she demands and for any reason. Other people get a say.

JacquesHammer · 24/12/2018 16:23

Here you go. There’s my comment and the post it was in response to.

Does that help your understanding?

To think late-term abortion rules may need tightening up?
ElonMask · 24/12/2018 16:24

JacquesHammer

So can people tell you what you can or cannot "do with your uterus"or not ?

icannotremember · 24/12/2018 16:26

This thread has reminded me just why I despise anti choicers so much. Embarrassments to the human race the lot of you.

JacquesHammer · 24/12/2018 16:27

So can people tell you what you can or cannot "do with your uterus"or not

I’m not sure how to say it any simpler.

But in response to “abortion should be banned” I.e. “I don’t agree with abortion” then no. You can’t.

Shall we leave it there? I don’t think you’re equipped for this.

Xenia · 24/12/2018 16:35

This thread to me summarises the problems we have in the UK at the moment - people not respecting the views of others, calling all Brexiteers stupid or Tories wicked.

People can be really kind good individuals and think a baby is present and should not be killed in the womb. It doesn't mean they hate women. They just have a different view from others.

The law already does say what you can and cannot do with your uterous eg you cannot have an abortion in most cases after 24 weeks as the baby prevails over your choice to kill it.

CardsforKittens · 24/12/2018 16:36

This thread has reminded me just why I despise anti choicers so much. Embarrassments to the human race the lot of you.

I was just thinking how comforting it is to see sound reasonable points made by those who are pro-choice, while the anti-choice posts are riddled with misinformation and hyperbole. I feel encouraged, although not complacent, about the future.

ElonMask · 24/12/2018 16:39

I’m not sure how to say it any simpler.

Well, you could have tried saying "don't tell me whether I can or cannot have an abortion"' for example, since that is what you meant.

People have opinions about controversial medical procedures they are required to fund. I don't think the law this country should be changed, but I would equally be very unhappy if the NHS was expected to provide abortion to term and for any reason, and I was not allowed to have an opinion because it's not my uterus.

CardsforKittens · 24/12/2018 17:06

People have opinions about controversial medical procedures they are required to fund.

People can have opinions. However, if those opinions have no basis in reality they're not really worth listening to. Many anti-choice opinions are based on a sense of unease fostered by thousands of years of male control of women's bodies, whereas pro-choice opinions are based on knowledge of women's real experiences. So yes, people can have opinions, but if those opinions are unresearched and don't acknowledge the realities of domestic abuse, sexual assault and poverty in women's lives then they are essentially worthless as opinions.

moredoll · 24/12/2018 17:12

I am truly baffled.
20 weeks is not 35 or 39 weeks.
Who and where are these women who are having abortions at 35 weeks?
The anti-abortion lobby seem to have decided to nest on Mumsnet lately.

moredoll · 24/12/2018 17:22

you cannot have an abortion in most cases after 24 weeks as the baby prevails over your choice to kill it.

Typical emotive statement from an anti-abortionist. There is no baby. There is no killing.

ElonMask · 24/12/2018 17:22

moredoll

So if these women don't exist then there is no need to change the law to accommodate abortion to term for any reason. Great, we agree it should be left as is.

moredoll · 24/12/2018 17:24

But do they exist? That is my question.

troubleswillbeoutofsight · 24/12/2018 17:33

Typical emotive statement from an anti-abortionist. There is no baby. There is no killing.
Try telling that to a mother of a 24 week baby in SCBU as she sits there willing that child to survive. Of course it’s a baby at 24 weeks. Wtf do you think it is

moredoll · 24/12/2018 17:45

Of course it’s a baby at 24 weeks. Wtf do you think it is

When a pregnancy is terminated at 24 weeks the foetus no longer has the potential for life. It was not born so it did not become a baby.

The mother in the special baby unit made a different decision and gave birth to a baby.

ElonMask · 24/12/2018 17:57

The mother in the special baby unit made a different decision and gave birth to a baby.

This is where I get frustrated, I support the current law, but there is no point in pretending that "it" becomes something fundamentally different when either passing through the birth canal or being removed by some other means. It doesn't. To me it's as silly as the life begins at conception argument. Push ms mask, "what is it?" It will become a baby in a just a moment...ooh it is one now. Pregnant women consider they have a baby in there.

Gilead · 24/12/2018 17:57

user145 there are many reasons to terminate a pregnancy due to sex, some specific life limiting illnesses for example. Off that high horse now dear...

MsLucyLastic · 24/12/2018 18:01

MaisyPops and some other posters - I am glad you think that no woman would try to obtain a late term abortion for non-medical reasons. It means you haven't come into contact with women who are extremely diverse in their personal moral code.

I can assure you that these women exist. When I met one, I was horrified, but more experienced colleagues had met women like that before.

Psychopaths (as they used to be called) exist.

What I also don't understand, is HOW any medic would ever agree to perform a late term abortion for non medical reasons, when it goes against the first medical ethic of first do no harm? If a medic knows that a 30 week old, healthy foetus is viable, I can't get my head around how medical ethics would allow an abortion in such cases?

What I also don't understand, is the argument that women habe the "right" to an abortion up to term for non medical reasons. When that right depends on another's consent to perform a procedure, then it isn't a right, surely? Maybe I am not understanding.

MsLucyLastic · 24/12/2018 18:03

Sorry, I meant to say for shits and giggles, not just non medical reasons for terminating. Of course not all who would like a later tern abortion are psychopaths!

moredoll · 24/12/2018 18:09

This is where I get frustrated, I support the current law, but there is no point in pretending that "it" becomes something fundamentally different when either passing through the birth canal or being removed by some other means. It doesn't.

It is fundamentally different because it is no longer dependent on the umbilical cord and placenta for its development. And, if all goes well, it takes its first breath.

KoshaMangsho · 24/12/2018 18:49

Late term abortions after 24 weeks for NON MEDICAL REASONS are NOT available in the UK. OOOOOOFFF. So much misinformation on this thread.

KoshaMangsho · 24/12/2018 18:50

As the mother of a 26 weeker, my ‘baby’ was a foetus till he was born. Please don’t use my premature baby to score political points. The viability limit has no legal/medical link with the abortion limit.

Orlande · 24/12/2018 19:01

MsLucy - so you are arguing that it is better for these psychopaths to be forced to give birth to and take home a newborn baby they don't want?
What do you think that baby's life will be like home alone with a psychopathic baby killer?

MrsHares17 · 24/12/2018 19:03

I totally agree @KoshaMangsho .

My 23 week much loved, much wanted twins, died shortly after birth. But according to some posters on here they probably should've had a normal long lived life due to advances in neonatology Hmm
Or does that idealistic view only apply to "terminated" babies?!

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