To think late-term abortion rules may need tightening up?

[FestiveNut]

Should people be able to abort healthy fetuses in a low risk pregnancy past 20 weeks gestation?

I read a very sad story concerning this earlier. I considered myself pro-choice in all circumstances but this thread has caused me to question that.

Should the threshold be lowered?

if someone murdered the baby while in the tummy of a pregnant women, that person would be charged with murder
Wrong. The baby hasn't drawn a breath so isn't a person, as such cannot be murdered. The person would be done for assault but likely incur a heavy sentence.

Actually in some countries that is the case

I know someone who had a scan at 16 weeks found it wasn’t the sex they wanted and terminated the pregnancy (quite recently too) that made me sick to my stomach and made me think you should absolutely not allow abortions past that stage unless there is a medical reason to do so. This person (not a friend or connection to me in anyway) doesn’t even hide this and is happy to claim she will continue until she gets the sex she wants. Disguisting.

So you think they should have continued the pregnancy and had an unwanted child? What a great idea.

@Now I’m found stop reading anti abortion nonsense and try some facts. Oh, and stop making judgements on other women’s choices.

Aura was it a boy?
I totally get the disappointment at having the sex you don't want but I suppose wouldn't terminate for it.
There was a woman on here with a surprise 4th on here after 3 boys. A harmony said it was a girl. She wanted to keep it only because it was a girl, but would have terminated a boy as it wasn't planned. I don't think there's anything wrong with that honesty but your situation is I suppose more uncomfortable.

Abortion does not fit the legal definition of murder, NowImFound. As it understand it, it’s “the killing of another person with malice aforethought.” There’s no way to prove that malice is a motivating factor when it comes to abortion.

So you can spout your pro-birth crap all you like. It is not murder.

www.guttmacher.org/news-release/2017/worldwide-estimated-25-million-unsafe-abortions-occur-each-year

The reality of illegal abortion. The fact is women abort whether it’s legal or not, so you have a choice between legal abortion or women dead or injured alongside their fetuses.

Personally I believe the worth of a fetus is best judged by the woman carrying it. I don’t consider them seperate entities with rights for as long as they are inside and require the body of another person. If you don’t want an abortion, late or otherwise, then by all means feel free not to have one.

And murder is defined as unlawful killing, specifically of a person, therefore abortion is by definition not murder.

LagerthaTheShieldMaiden So u think a baby has no right to live because it has the wrong thing between its legs for its mother’s wishes? What a great idea!! There’s other options than to kill the poor baby because it wasn’t gonna wear the right colour clothes she wanted!! What happens if the sex she desires doesn’t end up being the vision she expects from them, eg, won’t wear frills or go shopping, or is a tomboy..... I can guarantee that baby will be unwanted too!
Yes it was a boy PP. I had gender disappointment with my second pregnancy I admitted that, but my baby was kicking, living and healthy (previously lost a baby at 17 weeks) so I tried to put my feelings to the side and now I wouldn’t change the sex even if I could. No way would I terminate so late unless like I said above, medical reasons for mother or baby....

*People come into this subject without doing research. I recall the vicar who campaigned against abortion after she'd read about a foetus aborted due to a cleft palate. She'd been born with a mild cleft palate, and thought it was wrong that abortions for this reason shouldn't be allowed.

But a basic Google brings up lots of information showing that in some cases a cleft palate is severe enough to cause other complications. A classic case of "well, I came out ok, so other babies should too".

Those stats will give the bare bones of a case, but they won't be going into detail, so we never really know the truth of any situation where a late abortion is chosen*

This case infuriates me, I have a child with a serious genetic condition but it has only been uncovered as a genetic condition in the last 10 for years it used to be know/ called as something else. One of the key markers is a cleft palate but not everyone has this but it does came with a whole host of other physical and cognitive problems. Not everyone has a cleft palate, most also have serious heart problems too but not always.

It’s only very recently a test has been developed that could be performed to pick this up, previously if a heart or cleft palate was picked up your child might have this condition. This may result in the child not surviving birth, infancy (very high risk of cot death) or just not making it to adulthood.

We’ve been exceptionaly luck as my child has no heart or serious cleft problems but she was very unwell as a child and stopped breathing many times. I’m quite annoyed at the blasé attitude to what life is like caring for a child with medical needs. I’ve chosen not to have more children because of the genetic risk and the fact I just couldn’t care for another baby at the expense of my daughter. If I had a contraception failure I’d terminate and the reason would be classed as social reasons not medical.

If someone was to kill a mother while pregnant, and the baby also died, or if someone murdered the baby while in the tummy of a pregnant women, that person would be charged with murder! But if the women decides it, it's called "women's rights."

Back to lawschool for you...

Auramigraine

I am surprised they told her.

My area you are not allowed to know the sex unless you have an amnio.

Actually yes it is against the law to kill an unborn child

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/dec/17/man-convicted-of-killing-unborn-baby-by-kicking-pregnant-ex-girlfriend

Oliversmumsarmy
She went to a private scan clinic, the scan was posted on social media at the time by the baby’s father, she then terminated. I have always been told the gender of my kids at scans, unless it’s different for different areas.

Sex of the baby I mean not gender

if someone murdered the baby while in the tummy of a pregnant women, that person would be charged with murder

I believe that is the case in the USA.

No it shouldn't be lowered.

Anyone who would terminate a pregnancy because of the wrong sex doesn’t deserve to have children

@SkullPointerexception

From a philosophical rather than a practical POV: It simply doesn't matter whether or not the fetus is a person or has inherent rights: nobody has the right to make use of another's body in order to secure their own survival.

Wow, I have read some nonsensical guff on here, but this takes the biscuit! That barely makes sense!

@Bettyspants

However I do understand the views of those who think the unborn child should have rights rather than it being purely 'my body my choice '. I recall many years ago a later termination being performed where the baby was born breathing and taken to special care (did not survive). Additionally some methods STILL used across the world in terminations (late or otherwise) are barbaric and inhumane.

This literally sent a chill through me.

Like a number of others on here, I cannot believe that anyone could possibly advocate terminating a pregnancy at 39 weeks. The baby is ready to be born then. Surely there can never a good reason to abort at that stage? And if people did not want a disabled child, (and that was the reason for termination!) or they just didn't want a baby at all, they would know they were pregnant - or the baby had a disability - before 39 weeks! No way in hell should termination be allowed at that stage.

Someone said earlier in the thread, that in some countries, they drown the baby at birth, or chuck rice down the baby's throat to choke it to death (if it's not a boy, or if it's not wanted.) That's a lame argument to try and justify aborting at full term!

Who gives a shit if other countries kill the baby just after it's been born, that doesn't mean we should be doing it here! In some countries they perform FGM, so would you do THAT to your daughters "because they do it in other countries?!!!"

We have a much better and more civilised society, and thank GOD that is not considered normal practice here. Thank God also, that there is a threshold of 24 weeks.

I cannot believe what I am reading on here. The thread is batshit. I bet the people saying that they think it's OK to abort a baby at 39 weeks would never say it to anyone in real life. Don't say you would, because you wouldn't.

Don’t be so arrogant to tell me what I can do with my uterus.

Commercial surrogacy ? The language employed by the "no one else is allowed an opinion on whether I want a trained team of medical professionals paid to murder a 39 week old baby growing in me" brigade is tiresome.

no one else is allowed an opinion on whether I want a trained team of medical professionals paid to murder a 39 week old baby growing in me

Why is this even a point of discussion though? It’s not even legally allowed so we don’t have to argue for or against it; UK law simply doesn’t support it past 24 weeks?

PineapplePower

There are a number of posters on this thread who are arguing that it should be legal and not only that, but society should provide all the required infrastructure and staff and stifle any reservations.

The language employed by the "no one else is allowed an opinion on whether I want a trained team of medical professionals paid to murder a 39 week old baby growing in me" brigade is tiresome

It’s tiresome when you don’t even read the thread. My comments you have referred to were in direct response (and I quoted to help the hard of thinking...) who said abortion should be banned.

It really is tiresome when someone either (a) doesn’t bother to follow the thread or (b) tries to erroneously make a point by suggesting comments refer to other points.

JacquesHammer

Wtf are you on about ? Stop trying to fudge it by saying it was out of context. What about my post misrepresents your views exactly ? And I have read the fucking thread before you try and pull that shit.

I think once it gets to having to swear youve lost the argument tbh