Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think late-term abortion rules may need tightening up?

999 replies

FestiveNut · 23/12/2018 09:11

Should people be able to abort healthy fetuses in a low risk pregnancy past 20 weeks gestation?

I read a very sad story concerning this earlier. I considered myself pro-choice in all circumstances but this thread has caused me to question that.

Should the threshold be lowered?

OP posts:
FestiveNut · 24/12/2018 12:54

It simply doesn't matter whether or not the fetus is a person or has inherent rights: nobody has the right to make use of another's body in order to secure their own survival

CF infants, growing in our wombs, stealing our nutrients...

Xmas Grin

I see what you're saying though.

Is the OP arguing for a lower cut off point?

I'm genuinely not sure how I feel about that one. I don't think I'd campaign for a lower limit, as PP have made some very convincing arguments. I asked for opinions to aid me in thinking everything through. Not that it matters at all what I think, but I'd like to know what I think, if that makes sense?

The issues of ending the pregnancy versus killing the foetus, Ireland's stance and people with disabilities are very thought-provoking. It's an incredibly complex issue.

OP posts:
JacquesHammer · 24/12/2018 12:56

you're the genius arguing that a foetus is not a life and should not be given special consideration, so from that perspective it is a thing in my body I don't want to be there. If I am to be given control over my body don't I get to say on what I want in it

Slow hand clap. You tried.

NowImFound · 24/12/2018 12:58

Abortion should be banned completely. We have absolutely no right to murder another human being, that includes an unborn baby! We should be protesting for the human rights of those helpless little human beings that are being killed daily!!!

EverythingsDozy · 24/12/2018 12:59

I don't think you'd get a healthy kidney removed in the UK on the NHS, aside from living donation. The NHS has better places to allocate funding. However, I bet if you could fund it yourself, there would be a surgeon willing to do it.

FissionChips · 24/12/2018 12:59

Biscuit ^^

JacquesHammer · 24/12/2018 13:00

Abortion should be banned completely. We have absolutely no right to murder another human being, that includes an unborn baby! We should be protesting for the human rights of those helpless little human beings that are being killed daily!!!

Cool. Don’t have one.

Don’t be so arrogant to tell me what I can do with my uterus.

NowImFound · 24/12/2018 13:11

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

moredoll · 24/12/2018 13:12

What about the child's right?

It's not a child, it's a foetus.
You're welcome.

LadyLance · 24/12/2018 13:13

A foetus is not a human being. The rights of human beings already born (the mother and any existing children) are more important.

Here are some of the (non-medical) reasons women abort towards the 24 week limit now- www.bpas.org/media/2027/late-abortion-report-v02.pdf
and www.bpas.org/media/1202/second_trimester_abortions__ingham.pdf

When we are talking about later term abortions, it's really important to remember we are talking about a very small number of women often in difficult and desperate situations- only 1-2% of all abortions.

A significant proportion of these women will not know they are pregnant before 12-14 weeks, they have not shown typical symptoms and are still bleeding or do not have regular periods. They may well be using contraception that affects their period as well. They haven't been pregnant for 20 weeks and known about it for 10 and suddenly gone "Oh actually I want an abortion". They've found out at maybe 20 weeks and are having to deal with the situation. It must be horrible for them and they deserve our compassion, not our judgement. Sometimes, these are young girls, rather than grown women. Making them carry a baby to term that they don't want and can't look after would be incredibly psychologically damaging.

The other sort of woman seeking later term abortion have often had a sudden circumstance change such as becoming homeless, or their partner has become violent, or they've had some other type of financial problem. They may already have children. Having to carry a pregnancy to term in these circumstances makes everything more challenging and difficult, especially as they have decided they can't look after the child when it is born.

Why is it ok for a woman to say at any stage they couldn't cope with a disabled child, but not with a healthy one when they may be in very difficult circumstances?

From a societal point of view, we are an overcrowded planet- encouraging women to have more children is not a good thing, long term. Having more unwanted children (especially if born early) is not something we as a society actually want or need. Those who are totally anti-abortion on this thread, I hope you have adopted a relinquished child, or done something to support mothers in difficult circumstances- otherwise you are just passing that burden on to everyone.

As early as possible, as late as necessary, all children born loved and wanted.

LadyLance · 24/12/2018 13:14

How dare we, as human beings, judge another person in desperately difficult situations? No-one has an abortion out of cruelty or fun.

How dare we overpopulate this planet, endangering other species and the future of our own?

NowImFound · 24/12/2018 13:14

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

PineapplePower · 24/12/2018 13:15

We have no right to kill a child. The way these babies are killed in the womb is pure evil. Ripping body parts off and crushing their heads!!

Is this a pisstake? I can’t tell anymore.

I’m sure you don’t really care, but for anyone else listening, the vast majority of abortions are done within 12 weeks; no skull crushing or ripped limbs to speak of.

Stop using fringe cases to argue for increased abortion restrictions.

JacquesHammer · 24/12/2018 13:16

A voice for the child a mother decides to murder! Absolutely. After all, the innocent life that is being ended/butchered, isn't allowed one

Not your womb, not your voice.

Presuming anything other is arrogant

PurpleDaisies · 24/12/2018 13:16

How dare we overpopulate this planet, endangering other species and the future of our own?

Is anyone actually suggesting people are having abortions out of concern for the environment? Confused

JacquesHammer · 24/12/2018 13:17

How many unwanted children have you adopted NowImFound?

TwistedStitch · 24/12/2018 13:18

How dare you call traumatized rape victims who can't cope with carrying their rapist's babies 'murderers' NowImFound. Stop being so obsessed with the rights of a foetus that it has stripped you of any basic humanity towards born women.

PineapplePower · 24/12/2018 13:19

As early as possible, as late as necessary, all children born loved and wanted

This sounds nice and very pat, but you do know the cutoff is at 24 weeks? We actually have limits on this, for good reason.

NowImFound · 24/12/2018 13:26

You can call it a foetus as much as you want! Changing his/her pronoun isn't going to make the murder any more bearable. It is absolutely a child. From the moment of conception, the child has everything that makes them a human being, the only difference is the level of dependancy and growth of the baby.

The baby has all his/her DNA that makes them, them. The mother doesn't get to just kill the baby based on inconvenience and because she is able to make that decision. The baby has no way of making the decision. We don't then get to decide that it should just die.

If someone was to kill a mother while pregnant, and the baby also died, or if someone murdered the baby while in the tummy of a pregnant women, that person would be charged with murder! But if the women decides it, it's called "women's rights."

Nah! It's absolutely disgraceful.

That's all I have to say!

JacquesHammer · 24/12/2018 13:28

The mother doesn't get to just kill the baby based on inconvenience and because she is able to make that decision

Actually that is just what the law says.

Wonkysack · 24/12/2018 13:29

A voice for the child a mother decides to murder! Absolutely. After all, the innocent life that is being ended/butchered, isn't allowed one
FFS

JacquesHammer · 24/12/2018 13:29

I’m still waiting to know what you do for unwanted babies?

Except you do nothing. Because you’re a pro-birth crank

TwistedStitch · 24/12/2018 13:30

or if someone murdered the baby while in the tummy of a pregnant women, that person would be charged with murder!

No they wouldn't because an unborn child doesn't have legal personhood.

PineapplePower · 24/12/2018 13:30

Very interesting, NowImFound I guess you are in favor of forced birth? Do you literally want to force women and girls to have babies? Is this the kind of society you want?

Would you be in favor of jailing women who’ve had abortions?

Wonkysack · 24/12/2018 13:31

I wonder what support the pro lifers would give their friends who they would stop having terminations-would you babysit the child, give the mum a night off? Because not all kids can be adopted.

Would you help financially? Do the homework with the child? Would you deal with the violent father? Find the mother a home, deal with the other siblings?

Thought not. Sanctimonious bullshit with no grasp of reality. Want to thank yourselves lucky you've never truly suffered like some women have.

moredoll · 24/12/2018 13:31

That's all I have to say!

Good