To think late-term abortion rules may need tightening up?

[FestiveNut]

Should people be able to abort healthy fetuses in a low risk pregnancy past 20 weeks gestation?

I read a very sad story concerning this earlier. I considered myself pro-choice in all circumstances but this thread has caused me to question that.

Should the threshold be lowered?

Do you think that termination at 17 weeks is worse than being forced to carry on an unwanted pregnancy for a further 23 weeks and then giving up your child surferjet?

Years ago I knew someone who delayed her medically very needed (baby had no skull basically) termination for two weeks so she was over the 24 week cut off. She wanted to bury her little boy but was told if it was before 24 weeks they would dispose of the baby as medical waste . I hope that people don't have to make that choice now.

Saying that I'm 100% pro choice. Something massive must be going on for a woman to choose a late term termination and she is the best person to decide what is right for her and her pregnancy.

The problem with women’s reproductive rights is that they’re precarious (as seen in the US recently) and if we give an inch, ie if we say only for medical reasons, only before 24 weeks, then they’ll take a mile and we’ll be back to no (legal) abortion for any reason. Try asking the family of the woman who died in Ireland a few years ago (sorry can’t remember her name without googling) how good an idea they think this is.

Think about it honestly. A woman who is over 20 weeks pregnant and just decides she doesn't want a baby after all? How likely is it? Almost definitely there will be a myriad of other shit going on in those situations, and those women need to be able to access a safe abortion. Like the example a PP gave of the woman with the abusive partner who wouldn't let her leave the house.

43 women in 2012 had post 20 week abortions for non medical reasons in the UK. That is a small number and it is highly likely that there is a whole host of things going on (abuse, denial of the pregnancy etc) amongst that 43.

I agree, SlowlyShrinking. The frequency with which late-term abortion is raised as a discussion point, compared to the rarity of its actual use (and often in extremely traumatic situations), is because its an upsetting, uncomfortable issue even for people who are pro-choice at earlier stages, and anti-abortion proponents know that.

Even on this thread, you can see how the arguments given against late-term abortion could be applied earlier and earlier in pregnancies, perhaps even to the point of conception, until (what a surprise) it turns out women can't really be trusted with their own reproductive rights at all.

As early as possible, as late as necessary.

Having a 16 week cut-off for 'social' reasons (which as described above may include abuse, relationship breakdown, mental health issues and so one) means sentencing a woman to forced birth - with all the risks of pregnancy complications, some of which can be life-threatening, like pre-eclampsia. So surferjet is happy to condemn women to be forced to carry and deliver a baby - does that happiness end when the first one dies of the complications of that forced pregnancy? Death sentence by birth - there's dystopia for you. And yes, the numbers this happens to will likely be vanishingly small, but one woman's life lost is one too many, just as one innocent person sentenced to death is one too many. The latter has happened and continues to happen all around the world. The former would only be a matter of time.

You're getting worked up and angry over all these women who want to terminate at 35 weeks for no reason.

Not true. If it would hardly ever happen then we needn't be prepared for it, right ?

The point is that unless you would be willing to kill a 30+ week old baby in the womb then you have no business demanding that society provides trained and willing staff who will.

Everyone knows it's alive which is why it has to be killed first. You can't just remove it in the state it is in and dispose of it like a lump of tissue.

Most people understand this quite reasonably. The law in our country is about right in my opinion. It's a very complex moral issue and people with simple answers like "life begins at conception" or "as late as the women wants and for whatever reason" are as bad as each other.

should be forced to have one

I think you don't understand what the word forced means. Take it up with "god".

An alternative argument is ''don't remove rights you don't need from people who do.''

To posters who are saying it is really uncommon to abort at 20 weeks. I have heard of two people contemplating late abortions recently. I think for younger women they think they should be able to abort at any time, and if they want to they will do. Probably don’t have a clue what it entails in reality. I do feel for nursing staff involved and would hope they have the choice whether to participate or not. I know I couldn’t.

Pointythings well in the abortion scenario one of the people involved ends up dead do they not.

43 reasons for late term abortions for non-medical reasons. That’s a bit disingenuous as probably most late term abortions are for tenuous medical reasons anyway.

I think you don't understand what the word forced means. Take it up with "god".

Eh?

user yes, and that is the choice the woman makes. But for some reason women aren't trusted to make that choice. Bollocks to that, let's have abortion on demand to make it easier. No more approval from two doctors. Faster services. Watch the number of late term abortions drop - because it's easier to get an early one.

Where does god come into any of this? And why don't I understand the word forced?

Saying it's the woman's right to abort so late on into the pregnancy,because it's her bodyis a dreadful attitude.

No it is the right attitude. Women are people not incubators!!
We have our own thoughts feelings and reasons. Take your MRA crap elsewhere.

Drogosnextwife

Am I being forced to have large breasts ? 2 legs ? My hair is going grey. Your logic seems to be that without access to whatever medical procedures are available to alter the course of nature, I'm being forced to exist that way.

Slightly different yo having to raise a child you do not want. However I have already said abortion. Doesn't sit well with me, but it's not for me to decide what other women do. If you wanted to die your hair you are free to, if your breasts are a certain size you may be entitled to a breast reduction on the NHS. But is someone stops you from doing any of these things against your wishes then I guess you are being forced, yes.

People come into this subject without doing research. I recall the vicar who campaigned against abortion after she'd read about a foetus aborted due to a cleft palate. She'd been born with a mild cleft palate, and thought it was wrong that abortions for this reason shouldn't be allowed.

But a basic Google brings up lots of information showing that in some cases a cleft palate is severe enough to cause other complications. A classic case of "well, I came out ok, so other babies should too".

Those stats will give the bare bones of a case, but they won't be going into detail, so we never really know the truth of any situation where a late abortion is chosen.

We have our own thoughts feelings and reasons.

Yeah and most of us understand that a baby doesn't become a baby because of the mothers feelings towards it. And they would not personally be willing to murder a baby at 35 weeks for any reason the mother decides. Nor do we deem it reasonable to expect instant access to trained staff willing to perform such a procedure without qualms, and claim it is bordering on the monstrous that we don't.

Most people think the law is about right, you need a much better argument than the one put forward here to persuade most people it ought to be done away with.

@oliviatrivia I'm so sorry to hear of your loss
I'd just like to reassure you that you your baby wasn't "statistically " a late abortion.
The induction would've been performed to speed up the inevitably horrible outcome, whilst protecting your health.
It will have been categorised as a late miscarriage.
I've been in a similar situation, and I think the important word is choice.
We would have chosen to save our babies if we could have, not the other way around, as is being discussed here.

Most people think the law is about right, you need a much better argument than the one put forward here to persuade most people it ought to be done away with.

I am not trying to persuade anyone.
You can have any thought or opinion you want.
End of the day the law imo rightfully agrees women have body autonomy albeit up to certain point.
Women should ALWAYS have a right over their own body whether you or I like it or not.
I dont own the rights to another person.

but it's not for me to decide what other women do

We live in a society, something controversial that requires tax payer funding is going to be subject to debate.

I guess you are being forced, yes.

We are slaves to the laws of physics as well.

Women should ALWAYS have a right over their own body whether you or I like it or not. I dont own the rights to another person.

Well then, what right have you to insist that trained staff must be paid for by the state to carry out a late term abortion without qualms. No one has a right to this.

Debate yes but do my personal feelings trump that of another grown woman... No, so I do not get to make that decision for her. I pay taxes towards a lot of things. If your large breasts were causing you health or mental problems then you should be able to access a breast reduction using tax payers money imo.

We live in a society, something controversial that requires tax payer funding is going to be subject to debate.

Nothing wrong with debate.
Healthcare in uk is free at point of delivery which includes procedures we may think people do not need/deserve. However women should not be denide healthcare or bidy autonomy just because others believe they have a say on that persons life/body due to morals or their own beliefs. .