To think late-term abortion rules may need tightening up?

[FestiveNut]

Should people be able to abort healthy fetuses in a low risk pregnancy past 20 weeks gestation?

I read a very sad story concerning this earlier. I considered myself pro-choice in all circumstances but this thread has caused me to question that.

Should the threshold be lowered?

Personally I am in favour of an abortion at any stage for any reason (in fact reasons shouldn't even have to be given) people need Romero their beaks out of other people's uteruses

*To keep not Romero

Staff have the right to conscientiously object to performing abortions as laid out in the abortion act. If a physician is not comfortable with performing this procedure, they don't have to. That applies to anyone who has direct involvement in this procedure, so theatre staff, clinic staff etc, but I think staff indirectly involved cannot object like nurses who provide aftercare.

Well then, what right have you to insist that trained staffmustbe paid for by the state to carry out a late term abortion without qualms. No one has a right to this.

They dont. Jobs are choice. I work for the NHS i have held various roles all by choice.

My own GP refused me the MAP 10 years ago because it went against her religion. I accepted it and waited an hour to see a different GP. Choice. For all.

I think termination for medical reasons should absolutely be available at any point. And the lines are getting a bit blurred here, and making desperate women,with zero other choice, feel shit.

Most late term abortions are carried out for conditions that are incompatible with life.
These women embarked on pregnancy in the hope of taking home a healthy term baby.
They are then faced with the soul destroying task of terminating their ill baby or watching it die/suffer at a later date.

Unless you have been in this situation yourself, I really don't think it's anyone's business and doesn't need justifying to the pro life brigade.

There are very few women who pop off in their lunch break to abort a healthy late term fetus.
I've worked in a large obstetric unit for almost 20 years and have never heard of, or seen, one such woman.

You should need NO reason to have an abortion - I WANT to is enough.

And there should be no threshold of when you can have one.

Personally I think 12 weeks for any reason, up to 18 weeks in exemption circumstances eg severe mental health and beyond 18 only for disability

So if a woman has irregular periods and finds out she's pregnant at 11 weeks and the clinic can't fit her in for 8 more days she's told tough luck anniehm? Why 12 weeks specifically?

Conversely it’s equally incomprehensible to others how some people are so blaze about the physical and mental health of another human being and the lack of concern for their futures.

Don't be silly now, @Cornettoninja. We all know that women aren't people with a right to bodily autonomy. They're just incubators with legs and don't matter. Fuck their mental and physical health, amirite? /s

I think people need to realise as well that if we make the abortion limit 12 weeks then anything after that must be considered viable - how many 12 week old foetuses can survive outside the womb?

Personally I think 12 weeks for any reason

Due to a stretched service I didn’t even get my first scan until 14 weeks

As early as possible, as late as necessary.

I think this is more important than ever as new developments in neonatal care mean that more and more babies survive (thankfully) at earlier and earlier stages of gestation. If the time limit for termination was reduced in line with neonatal viability, it would end up very low indeed.

I can remember when viability was considered to be 28 weeks, and was very surprised a few years ago when I met someone with twins who'd been delivered at 26 weeks. Now, 24 weeks is considered viable. It seems to be coming down about a week a decade.

I can also remember (just) a time when termination wasn't legal at all, and I'd hate to go back to those days, even if it was only for late terminations.

I'd imagine denying women abortions after 12 weeks would push a fair few into your MH exemption category anyway anniehm. Far better for a woman to abort at 18 weeks following a MH crisis after being denied a termination at 12+1 so that her MH wasn't impacted yeah?

*THAN at 12+1

if we make the abortion limit 12 weeks then anything after that must be considered viable

Why? Quite a few other countries have a 12 week limit (unless for medical reasons) The 24 week limit in the U.K. is quite unusual.

Arghh ignore correction!

I cant even begin to think that forcing a woman to continue a pregnancy and undertake a birth she doesnt want to (for whatever reason) is in any way correct. Its inhumane.

It makes absolutely zero difference to the foetus whether the abortion is for a "good" reason or a "bad" reason so really we're just talking about making moral judgements of deserving/undeserving women.

I agree, Orlande. No-one has the right to decide what "reason" is good enough for someone else to terminate a pregnancy.

Remember that when dating pregnancy in weeks, the count begins on the first day of your last menstrual cycle, and not the date of conception. So if you ovulate and conceive on day 14 of your cycle, you're officially four weeks pregnant by the time you miss a period.

If you have long or irregular cycles, are not remotely anticipating a pregnancy, or simply don't keep close track of your periods, it's easy to lose several weeks before you even begin to suspect you're pregnant. So by then you're already classed as six, seven, eight weeks. Then you may need some time to get your head around it and make a decision, or you may know immediately but struggle to access appropriate healthcare.

Twelve weeks is nothing, and people who live in countries with this limit know that it is more about shaming or trapping women into keeping pregnancies than anything else.

Might reducing the time limit actually increase the number of abortions?

If someone knows they have to make a very quick decision - for example, if the pregnancy wasn't detected particularly early and waiting times are known to be a few weeks - then for an unexpected but not impossible situation they might be inclined to have an abortion rather than have a while to get used to the idea of having a baby?

Nearly 200,000 abortions is a disgrace

Nearly 200,000 abortions is nearly 200,000 women not being forced to continue with pregnancies against their will, not being forced to go through pregnancy and childbirth that may have damaged their health, possibly irrevocably, women who may have been raped or in abusive relationships, women who had become homeless, women with addictions ...

In an ideal world, there'd be no need for anyone to terminate a pregnancy. But we don't live in an ideal world.

Until we do, please don't use your judgy opinions to make other women feel bad for whatever choices they have had to make.

If a physician is not comfortable with performing this procedure

But what reason could they have for not wanting to kill a 35 week old baby ? After all it would be inhumane to not do so if the mother requests it for any reason.

I'm no pro lifer by any means but the arguments here are very weak.

No-one has the right to decide what "reason" is good enough for someone else to terminate a pregnancy.

You're missing the point. The pregnancy is not being terminated by the pregnant woman who is being prevented from doing something to herself. A late stage abortion is a fairly complex procedure that requires killing a baby before it comes out. But really, wouldn't it be easier just to kill it after it is removed? Unless you actually believe that passing through the birth canal confers life, what's the problem ?

I cant even begin to think that forcing a woman to continue a pregnancy and undertake a birth she doesnt want to (for whatever reason) is in any way correct. Its inhumane.

Again, would you personally be willing to inject a 35 week old babies heart with poison so that it is dead on delivery ? For any reason ?

Do you think that men who think they are women are being forced to have a penis ? Because it's the same argument. Is it inhumane to deny them bodily autonomy ?

Elonmask I consider it infanticide to kill a 35 week old foetus in the uterus. It is capable of breathing independently.

I'm no pro lifer by any means but the arguments here are very weak.

Women having a choice is a weak argument?
Because lets face it this is what it boils down to. Women having a choice is seen as weak now?