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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think late-term abortion rules may need tightening up?

999 replies

FestiveNut · 23/12/2018 09:11

Should people be able to abort healthy fetuses in a low risk pregnancy past 20 weeks gestation?

I read a very sad story concerning this earlier. I considered myself pro-choice in all circumstances but this thread has caused me to question that.

Should the threshold be lowered?

OP posts:
formerbabe · 23/12/2018 12:31

I think once you are at the stage where a baby could be removed from the womb and survive independently from the mother without extreme medical intervention then abortion for social reasons should not be allowed.

JacquesHammer · 23/12/2018 12:32

I think once you are at the stage where a baby could be removed from the womb and survive independently from the mother without extreme medical intervention then abortion for social reasons should not be allowed

So what are the options? We force women to continue an unwanted pregnancy?

formerbabe · 23/12/2018 12:33

At that stage you are needing to balance the rights of the baby and the rights of the mother. I am a feminist and pro choice but that doesn't mean I believe rights of a woman necessarily override rights of the baby without debate.

Orlande · 23/12/2018 12:33

And what exactly do we do with all these premature, possibly disabled, maybe drug addicted, alcohol damaged unwanted babies once they're born?

Original poster
FestiveNut · 23/12/2018 12:33

No restrictions. You are either pro choice or not."

Then I guess I'm not. I can't agree with abortion of a healthy 39 week old foetus, which is what no restrictions at all would mean. The only difference between a foetus at term and a baby at term is which side of the mother's skin it is is on.

I suppose I'm somewhere between pro choice and pro life by your reckoning.

OP posts:
Shitmewithyourrhythmstick · 23/12/2018 12:33

Free tests with contraceptives is a better idea than reducing the limit well below the point of viability. It might help some women, those using pills or barrier methods.

formerbabe · 23/12/2018 12:34

So what are the options? We force women to continue an unwanted pregnancy?

The other option is to terminate the life of a baby who could live independently from the mother. Both are horrible choices...It's about choosing the least awful one.

Original poster
FestiveNut · 23/12/2018 12:35

So what are the options? We force women to continue an unwanted pregnancy?

That's what we do currently once it gets to that stage. So... yes?

OP posts:
Orlande · 23/12/2018 12:36

It's lucky that the NHS and social services are so well funded that they can cope with all these hundreds of premature, unwell, unwanted babies.

JacquesHammer · 23/12/2018 12:38

The other option is to terminate the life of a baby who could live independently from the mother. Both are horrible choices...It's about choosing the least awful one

For me the key word is “could”.

It’s great we have medical facilities available to save premature, wanted babies. That shouldn’t be used as a tool in the abortion debate.

As far as I’m concerned a woman should be able to access an abortion for any reason at any stage.

formerbabe · 23/12/2018 12:38

It's lucky that the NHS and social services are so well funded that they can cope with all these hundreds of premature, unwell, unwanted babies

I don't for a moment believe there's loads of unwanted newborn babies in the UK. What nonsense.

Original poster
FestiveNut · 23/12/2018 12:40

Right, my Mil is arriving so I'll bid you adieu for now. Have a lovely Christmas Eve Eve.

OP posts:
ElonMask · 23/12/2018 12:41

worridmum

100% agree. I think the law in our country is about correct. For all who support abortion to term (which as pointed out is effectively the killing of the baby in utero) if you would not personally be willing to perform such a "routine" then it's not reasonable to demand the state must find a willing supply of people who would I don't think.

Ollivander84 · 23/12/2018 12:41

I think the other issue is how much you have to push to be sterilised. Because contraception can fail. I can't afford a child and have previously had a termination which left me suicidal, because I desperately wanted the baby but my job/hours/money doesn't allow me to
I'm on long term contraception and use two types because I'm terrified of getting pregnant but having chatted to my GP in the past, they wouldn't sterilise me

formerbabe · 23/12/2018 12:42

As far as I’m concerned a woman should be able to access an abortion for any reason at any stage

That means in theory, a woman in labour could change her mind in the delivery suite and request an abortion. Would you agree with this?

ElonMask · 23/12/2018 12:43

Would you agree with this?

Moreover would you personally be willing to commit what most people I think regard as murder at that stage for "any reason" the mother gave ?

echt · 23/12/2018 12:44

in theory

Yep.

Has it happened? Nope.

ElonMask · 23/12/2018 12:45

I'm on long term contraception and use two types because I'm terrified of getting pregnant but having chatted to my GP in the past, they wouldn't sterilise me

No offence, but you could just not have PIV sex if you were that terrified. That's what every women would do in the days before contraception.

Noname99 · 23/12/2018 12:45

As a matter on interest (not being a gf just genuinely interested) .... for all those who believe no restrictions/early as possible late as necessary .....
If someone attacks a 23 week pregnant women - punches them in the stomach and they miscarry - do you believe the only crime committed is assault on the woman? The foetus is of no consequence? I’m not asking about the law - asking if that is how this believed/view point plays out?

DarienGap · 23/12/2018 12:47

The idea of a woman choosing to terminate a healthy baby at 39 weeks for social reasons is absolutely barbaric. I can't believe that people would advocate that as a progressive move.

JacquesHammer · 23/12/2018 12:50

That means in theory, a woman in labour could change her mind in the delivery suite and request an abortion. Would you agree with this?

As echt said, exactly.

CosmicCanary · 23/12/2018 12:50

If someone attacks a 23 week pregnant women - punches them in the stomach and they miscarry - do you believe the only crime committed is assault on the woman? The foetus is of no consequence? I’m not asking about the law - asking if that is how this believed/view point plays out?

Not one person on this thread has said the feotus is of no consequence. What has been said is pro choice which means just that it is the womans choice.

If someone attacks a 23 week pregnant woman then that is not the womans choice is it?

echt · 23/12/2018 12:50

The idea of a woman choosing to terminate a healthy baby at 39 weeks for social reasons is absolutely barbaric

Has it ever happened? I mean outside the heads of anti-choice supporters?

Bowlofbabelfish · 23/12/2018 12:51

do you believe the only crime committed is assault on the woman?

There is quite deliberately no assault specifically on two people because granting personhood to the unborn ends up with the woman having no autonomy

There is, however, a legal mechanism for recognition that assault of a pregnant woman leading to injury/death is different - I know someone has explained how it works on here before.

JacquesHammer · 23/12/2018 12:52

Not one person on this thread has said the feotus is of no consequence. What has been said is pro choice which means just that it is the womans choice

Perfectly said.