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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think late-term abortion rules may need tightening up?

999 replies

FestiveNut · 23/12/2018 09:11

Should people be able to abort healthy fetuses in a low risk pregnancy past 20 weeks gestation?

I read a very sad story concerning this earlier. I considered myself pro-choice in all circumstances but this thread has caused me to question that.

Should the threshold be lowered?

OP posts:
Bowlofbabelfish · 23/12/2018 12:53

Nobody is getting a termination at 39 weeks for social reasons. The very, very few late term abortions that happen are almost all much wanted babies in situations where birth would mean serious injury or death for the mother or the baby has a catastrophic condition. It’s a tiny proportion of pregnancies and often extremely traumatic for the mother.

knittedmouse · 23/12/2018 12:54

The consequences for both the baby and the mother of being forced to be born as unwanted are worse than the termination of the pregnancy. Do pro lifers honestly believe that a woman who is forced to give birth and be left with an unwanted child faces a fun future where everything is roses? How many pro lifers have adopted dozens of the babies they'd force to exist? How much of their income do they donate to raising these babies?

It's easy to judge from the comfort of your own cosy position with no domestic violence, poverty, addiction or ill health to deal with alongside an unwanted pregnancy.

JacquesHammer · 23/12/2018 12:55

How many pro lifers have adopted dozens of the babies they'd force to exist? How much of their income do they donate to raising these babies?

The majority of pro-lifers aren’t “pro-life” at all. They’re “pro-birth”.

Xenia · 23/12/2018 12:55

We don't have many late abortions in the UK so I think we shoudl just leave the law as it stands. Some people will think life begins at conception so murdering a baby at 1 week gestation is as bad as 39 weeks. Others will think it only becomes a person at 20 weeks or 28 weeks or only once born. I had never been an easy issue.

bumbleymummy · 23/12/2018 12:57

Yanbu

Interesting that people say late term abortions for non-medical reasons are ‘vanishingly rare’ but think that SS are going to be ‘flooded’ with unwanted babies if the abortion limit is reduced Hmm.

Noname99 · 23/12/2018 13:01

That’s really interesting Cosmic thanks. I can’t agree with you but it’s interesting to see how people with this view think. However, if it is the case that it can only be a women’s choice then sadly that does mean the foetus is ultimately of no consequence because bodily autonomy is exactly that. There are no half measures. In this view, a woman can also choose to smoke, drink and do drugs through pregnancy no matter the affect on the foetus. Not a view I can subscribe to but fortunately I don’t have to make the law.

SlowlyShrinking · 23/12/2018 13:03

I always wonder why people think it’s any of their business why women have abortions, and how late they are?!

formerbabe · 23/12/2018 13:06

That means in theory, a woman in labour could change her mind in the delivery suite and request an abortion. Would you agree with this?

As echt said, exactly

So how far down the birth canal does the 40 week gestation baby have to be before you believe it to have rights?

That's a genuine question.

bumbleymummy · 23/12/2018 13:06

echt

The idea of a woman choosing to terminate a healthy baby at 39 weeks for social reasons is absolutely barbaric

Has it ever happened? I mean outside the heads of anti-choice supporters?

Yes

Woman jailed for aborting at 39 weeks

CosmicCanary · 23/12/2018 13:08

I can’t agree with you but it’s interesting to see how people with this view think.

I wasnt asking you to agree with me.

In this view, a woman can also choose to smoke, drink and do drugs through pregnancy no matter the affect on the foetus. Not a view I can subscribe to but fortunately I don’t have to make the law.

Smoking, drink and drugs are bad for all people yet they are free to choose to do it. That is deemed their body their choice but people with a view like yours think a persons choice ends with pregnancy. Is it still no longer their body their choice?

formerbabe · 23/12/2018 13:08

It's irrelevant if it's happened before. If the law was changed, you'd have to accept that at some point in the future someone might do it.

Bowlofbabelfish · 23/12/2018 13:10

In this view, a woman can also choose to smoke, drink and do drugs through pregnancy no matter the affect on the foetus. Not a view I can subscribe to but fortunately I don’t have to make the law.

A woman can - it’s her body. She’d be really unwiseto do so but it is her choice.

The problem is how would you legislate ? A law to actually ban a woman from eating or drinking something? That’s totalitarian territory. Nobody wants pregnant women smoking/drinking but you can’t legislate what the put into their bodies.

What you can do is have good identification and targeted help for those women.

These arent easy questions to answer. I believe all babies born should be wanted - I also believe women having autonomy over their bodies is non negotiable.

Orlande · 23/12/2018 13:14

bumbleymummy it was about 1900 abortions after 22 weeks and 250 (0.1% of total abortions) after 24 weeks, so in terms of overall abortions they are rare.

However only a few hundred extra 22, 23, 24 week babies being born each year would overwhelm services. Where would they all go? Where are the intensive care cots and medical staff to keep them alive? Where are the hundreds of adopters desperate for these babies who will have complex, lifelong needs?

Ollivander84 · 23/12/2018 13:14

@ElonMask and how many men are going to be happy in a relationship when you refuse PIV sex, ever? For maybe 15/20 years?
I'm obviously not saying forced into it but meet a guy, get into a relationship and say "oh by the way, we can never have sex?"

I fell pregnant last time on the pill, taken perfectly and the condom split. So now I have a copper coil, natural family planning app AND condoms

TwistedStitch · 23/12/2018 13:15

The woman in that link who was jailed had previously tried to get an abortion via clinics but was found to be slightly over the legal limit at that point so was refused. She also had quite a troubled background due to which her sentence was halved on appeal for being 'excessive'. I'd be interested in any cases where women just randomly decide to terminate at 39 weeks, I doubt they exist.

Hulloa · 23/12/2018 13:16

I used to work for a health authority and part of my role was ensuring appropriate access to healthcare. Very very occasionally we would get enquiries from advocates representing women who needed referral for abortion at 20+ weeks. All of the women were in awful situations and all of them were having great difficulty accessing the procedure at this stage of pregnancy. Therefore my experience of it is that it's uncommon, done for pressing reasons and difficult to access. A terrible situation all round and not one, I think, that needs any adjustment in law.

Noname99 · 23/12/2018 13:23

Smoking, drink and drugs are bad for all people yet they are free to choose to do it. That is deemed their body their choice but people with a view like yours think a persons choice ends with pregnancy. Is it still no longer their body their choice?

Actually we don’t allow people to smoke in places where it might harm the health of others. There is a smoking ban for this exact reason. Except when a foetus inside the womb, where it can be the most damaged by smoking. Then it’s ok? Very odd IMO.

Jaxtellerswife · 23/12/2018 13:26

@orlande yes, and it wasn't the first time either.

CosmicCanary · 23/12/2018 13:28

Actually we don’t allow people to smoke in places where it might harm the health of others. There is a smoking ban for this exact reason. Except when a foetus inside the womb, where it can be the most damaged by smoking. Then it’s ok? Very odd IMO.

Smoking ban in public places. A womans body is not a public place.
I never once said it was ok but I do accept that people will choose what they do with their body and whether I agree or not I have no power to stop them.

Pregnant women are educated by HP & society on whats wrong to do when pregnant however some will choose to ignore health advice. Her body her choice does not stop at conceptation.

Drogosnextwife · 23/12/2018 13:32

Interesting that people say late term abortions for non-medical reasons are ‘vanishingly rare’ but think that SS are going to be ‘flooded’ with unwanted babies if the abortion limit is reduced

Isn't it! Very contradictory to their argument.

LoubyLou1234 · 23/12/2018 13:34

I worked with a woman that had a very late termination, she had to go to a special clinic and be scanned to check. She was literally up to the limit. No reason for it. No idea why she waited so long she knew she wasn't having the baby but she was very visibly pregnant. She was very blasé about it all too. I'm pro choice but it was very uncomfortable.

Since I've worked with surviving prem babies/children that have survived -and do amazingly well:

Wonkysack · 23/12/2018 13:34

After a hellish pregnancy where i hoped the pregnancy would end until giving birth I don't think a late abortion would have been any better than burthing a live child tbh

TwistedStitch · 23/12/2018 13:39

The thing is- you may know a colleague who had a late abortion, was very blasé etc but you don't actually know what was in her mind, on her scans, what her MH was like unless you were in the appts with her. Maybe you weren't privy to her private medical information because it is none of your business.

Whyyounoeatmypie · 23/12/2018 13:41

I find the phrase 'for any or no reason' problematic. Whatever we do, we do it for a reason - it might just take a bit of digging into the unconscious to work out what that reason is.

Drogosnextwife · 23/12/2018 13:43

People saying that technically a woman should be allowed to change her mind during labour and decide to terminate the pregnancy, when exactly should the lethal injection be administered to the child? Before or after the birth? Absolutely ridiculous!