To think late-term abortion rules may need tightening up?

[FestiveNut]

Should people be able to abort healthy fetuses in a low risk pregnancy past 20 weeks gestation?

I read a very sad story concerning this earlier. I considered myself pro-choice in all circumstances but this thread has caused me to question that.

Should the threshold be lowered?

I've done some googling and apparently abortion at 22 weeks is very similar to induction in procedure. So does that mean some are born alive, then allowed to die? Anyone with medical expertise?
Usually in cases where the likelihood is that the baby will be born alive, a foeticide is performed before the induction. So a drug is injected through the mother's abdomen, with the needle guided by ultrasound, directly into the baby's heart to stop it beating. Once the baby is confirmed to have died in utero the induction is performed.

I'm pro-choice but I think the ease with which abortions are accessed here is problematic because of how many women are forced or pressured into abortions they don't really want.

Making abortions more difficult access will not stop those who are "forced in to it by another" it will only make it more distressing and dangerous for those women who are not forced.

Better support should be provided to ensure the woman is making her choice not one forced upon her from another person.

@morethanafuckingbleeder no they don't . See my previous post .

As early as possible, as late as necessary.

No one would go through a late abortion just for the fun of it

@FestiveNut would you be prepared to adopt a child born extremely preteem with the almost certain health outcomes? so likely very dependent on medications, devices, etc? if not, what would ylu do with women who do not wantbtheir child? put them in prison /tie them to a hospital bed to ensure the foetus is not harmed? very handmaid’s tale. Desperate people will find a way, and its is often going to be disastrous. pro choice is pro choice

"I cannot think of any reason to allow abortion at 39 weeks. Surely adoption would be easier on the mother’s mental health."

Savita Halappanavar?

When women are denied abortions it can KILL THEM.

I suppose that's a minor point in the scheme of things.

Pro choice so i dont get to decide on the choices other women make or why they make them

I’m glad to live in a country where women have access to safe terminations instead of having to go for a backstreet abortion which is what would happen otherwise.

26 countries have NO explicit exceptions to their total ban on abortion.

ie there is nothing about it's OK if it's to save the life of the mother.

Meanwhile 26000 women die every year due to unsafe illegal abortions.

The ego on some idiots!!

Easy, tiger. At no point have I claimed to know what's best for anyone, nor to have all the answers. I've simply stated that I've had my feelings about this issue wobbled by something I've read, explained that, and asked what others think. Name-calling is unnecessary.

Pro choice here and I totally support as early as possible, as late as necessary, for any or no reason

It’s not a choice I’d make for myself. But it’s a choice.

I’ve just looked up some stats. assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/763174/2017-abortion-statistics-for-england-and-wales-revised.pdf

Highlights:

• abortion rates are down since 2007 but increased from 2016-2017
• abortion rates have dropped by 10%~ in ten years for under 25s (p7) but are still the highest group
• abortions for under 18s has halved in the last ten years (p4)
• abortions for the age group 30-35 has increased 3% in the past ten years to 18.5% p4)
• late term abortions (those last 22 weeks) account for 0.1% of abortions (p12)

I hope I’ve dragged those stats out correctly.

Having worked in theatres which were doing abortions I would suggest that the impact on staff for late term is enormous. The reality is grim. Really grim and a very uncomfortable area.

Oh stop it.

Who do you think is getting late term abortions? Tragic medical conditions aside, it's women and girls who are in desperate situations, and vanishingly few of them at that. It's women who haven't had access to abortion services for whatever reason, could be religious or family pressure, very young girls who have hidden pregnancies or been in denial, women who have experienced sexual assault and coming to terms with what to do, those woth mental health issues. Women don't have late term abortions just on a whim, they are used by a tiny number of women who find themselves in often desperate.
No one is aborting healthy babies at 20 weeks because they just couldn't be arsed with getting round to it sooner, and if a newspaper story has managed to convince you of that then ask yourself is that person of sound mental health?

These are the most vulnerable people in our society and they deserve our support and compassion, not slinging judgement and a demand to prove whether their reasons are justified enough for the haranguing moral majority. Trust women and their caregivers.

@Yura what do people currently do where women with healthy foetuses find themselves past the 24 week cut off?

@Sciurus83 RTFT.

I know a woman that had a late term abortion and it was purely on a whim.

yes of course you do....

you think that someone who does that on a whim would be a good mother then?

The ego on some idiots!!

People are not idiots because they do not believe in ending a life ffs. How nasty! No one gets to decide or force a woman to have a baby the do not want in this country but they are allowed to feel what they feel and have an opinion on it.

I don't believe a woman who doesn't want to be a mother should be forced to be one, however terminations in general Don't sir right with me but It doesn't matter what I or anyone else thinks on that matter, we can't change it and I wouldn't try, so there's no need to be so fucking rude, come down off your high horse!

@Meganc559 I have a much wanted and loved little boy, but pregnancy and birth were hellish. Glossing over the details here but in short - nauseous from before I did the test, progressing to not even being able to keep water down and losing a load of weight. I developed pre eclampsia and had to be induced, tore really badly and had to be stitched back together in theatre. I was left traumatised by the whole thing, reliving the induction and birth every night for months. Thankfully I healed well physically, but mentally not so much.

I love my DS and would never be without him, but I never want to be pregnant again and do not think a woman should be forced to potentially go through a pregnancy like mine (or worse! ) for a baby they don't want. The people who argue women should just give up their unwanted baby for adoption ignore the physical and mental risks of pregnancy, which can be long lasting - there's a reason why we essentially have abortion on demand despite the law and that's because most doctors take the view that the physical and mental risks of continuing a pregnancy are always greater than the risks of having an abortion.

www.bpas.org/get-involved/campaigns/reports-and-parliamentary-work/

The very last link is the report, "32 reasons not to lower the abortion time limit" and it is well worth the time to read it. It presents real case studies of women who had appointments with BPAS after 20 weeks.

For a US perspective, you may also want to watch the documentary "After Tiller", here's a good article interviewing one of the doctors who participated in the documentary www.glamour.com/story/meet-one-of-the-most-controver

As early as possible, as late as necessary

As early as possible, as late as necessary, for any or no reason.

Agreed.

Thank you Koneku for this

"I love my DS and would never be without him, but I never want to be pregnant again and do not think a woman should be forced to potentially go through a pregnancy like mine (or worse! ) for a baby they don't want. The people who argue women should just give up their unwanted baby for adoption ignore the physical and mental risks of pregnancy, which can be long lasting - there's a reason why we essentially have abortion on demand despite the law and that's because most doctors take the view that the physical and mental risks of continuing a pregnancy are always greater than the risks of having an abortion."

This is all so often overlooked generally in conversations about abortion. The "just carry it to term, give birth and give it up for adoption" people overlook some quite fundamental issues.

The pro abortion people usually show the foetus as sort of floating in an empty space, they never show that actualyl it is inside a living breathing woman with her own life, possibly (probably) other children already to take care of etc. They don't give any thought to the impact on her, the risks of pregnancy,birth, the high levels of mental health issues even when the child is wanted etc etc and of course the physical toll which can be long-term and serious. The reality for women is pushed to one side > in a way she doesn't exist as a person she;s an unwelcome but sadly necessary player in a story that is not about her at all.

what do people currently do where women with healthy foetuses find themselves past the 24 week cut off?

Several of the people in the BPAS case studies (32 reasons not to lower the abortion time limit) were already above the limit. You have to wonder what happened to the teenage girl who had not told her family for shame, who had an arranged marriage coming up that summer with the expectation she would be a virgin. I hope her family supported her, but what is the likelihood? I suspect it's also likely the total opposite happened.

What happened to the woman on the Methadone program who suspected being forced to give birth was going to push her 'over the edge'?

If you have a lot of money, you might be able to travel for an abortion. Very very few do, I imagine very few women who didn't realise they were above the limit, have the resources to do that. There were a couple of pro-life groups in the US getting upset a few years ago because a young British woman travelled to New Mexico for an abortion above the British time limit. It would have been the clinic in the article I linked above.

I read the link, thank you @maximilliannero. It was very similar to LadyLance's, but did point out that actually lots of the ones having late term abortions are only children themselves. I hadn't considered that. And @konekobasu sorry you had a rough time, but you do make a very good point about the impact of late stage pregnancy and childbirth.

A lot of people fall foul of contraception. I do wonder if it's worth giving free pregnancy tests with contraception prescriptions. I always tested every two months when on contraceptives in order to avoid only finding out too late. It seems a lot of late term abortions wouldn't happen if that advice was given to all.

No restrictions. You are either pro choice or not.

At 30+ weeks the abortion is giving birth anyway.

I would say a woman can end a pregnancy whenever they want BUT not to end the life after 26 weeks etc (its the same procedure ethier way the only dufference us the medics dont kill the feotus)

Her body her choice to end pregnancy not her choice to end a viable life.

So late term abortions (which is still birth but the featous is killed before labour is induced) so my postion is she can end the pregnancy but when featous is viable it is NOT killed.