to think there is something seriously wrong with our education system..

[TwinkleToes101]

when teachers are leaving in droves?

Just recently reading about record numbers of newly trained teachers giving up within 5 years (that was me 14 years ago), then on MN today partners having depression/breakdowns and all the posters who teach knew the person in question was a teacher...what the F is going so badly wrong with teaching??

I thought my reasons for leaving were personal: too little me time, too much low-level classroom disruption. Other postgrads I know left as I did because of work load. But don't other professions have high workloads/stresses?

Wow kolo. I think everyone needs to read your post

DH was a teacher. He qualified 10 years ago and left 4 years ago (6th year was part time whilst he retrained).

Out of 10 people on his course he is still in touch with, only 1 is still a mainstream teacher. 1 is a teaching assistant and one teaches in a special needs school. All the others have left education entirely.

Oh koloyou sound amazing!
Teachers have it very very hard - underpaid and very very stressful.

I have just had my last day at a school I have been miserabe at. I joined in 2015 and now there is only one teacher left in a department of 8 who was there in 2015.

I am so happy to be out. I felt trapped and desperate. I used to drive to work with this horrible feeling of dread in the pit of my stomach.

It yes there is with this one size fits all, test hungry and results hungry education system. Teachers no longer teach to inspire and develop kids, but they teach to test. There seems to be a lot of Ex mainstream teachers in my dd special school, where they don't have these pressures.

Really interesting post Kolo.
Really emphasises how challenging the job is.

DH had stress, got signed off at one point. His memory was terrible, there was no work/ life balance.

We logged his hours one year, not voluntary hours, just those essential to do the required elements of the job and he was actually earning less than minimum wage.

YANBU this started under Thatcher and has been getting gradually worse ever since. Most of our governments (on either side) and even Civil Service top brass don't use the State Education system so it's a playground for them.

The other side of this is the numbers of children coming out of school with stress, anxiety, unsupported SEN, lack of appropriate place etc are skyrocketing. Not blaming teachers.
The system is broken, the National Curriculum is a disgrace and should be scrapped. Teachers need to be allowed and supported to provide the best education they can for the children in their class at that time without ridiculous attainment targets. Everyone will benefit.

I 100% could have written your post @Kolo, in my 20th year at the moment, I love the actual teaching still, but...

I taught for 8 years. Some issues:

Parents. Some parents actively encourage their children to misbehave because they think they will get diagnosed with a condition that entitles them to more benefits. Meanwhile, other parents are desperately struggling but too proud to ask for help; then we (teachers) have to admonish the children because, say, they can’t afford the right shoes/equipment etc. as part of ridiculous non-negotiable uniform/equipment policies. Other parents can ensure that their child arrives at school with the latest iPhone/designer coat but not a pen. When the school try to administer a detention, the parents refuse to let their children attend.

Management. As a teacher, you absorb all of the pressure put on you by management and try to shield the students from it. The “motivational” assemblies from SLT are ignored by the lazy students they are aimed at but can have a really detrimental impact on students who are already anxious/suffering mental health issues. You end up spending so much time explaining to management what you are doing and why you are doing it that you have no time left to do your job properly; the amount of times I’ve been sat in meetings with people being told off for not meeting paperwork deadlines, with SLT completely missing the irony of the fact that they could be doing that task right now if it wasn’t for the meeting, would be laughable if it was many so fucking ludicrous.

The students. They are people. They have lives, and problems, and aspirations just like everyone. But nobody is interested. You are constantly asked why students are not achieving their targets and what you are going to do about it, even if there’s nothing you can: you can’t go back in time and stop them developing an illness, or losing a parent, or getting into drugs, or not developing a special educational need. But saying that they simply will not meet a target when they are 16, based on what they achieved when they where 11, is unacceptable to management, no matter what happened to them in the intervening 5 years. Also, practically everyone in this country has been to school. Clearly, some people will succeed, others won’t. I have taught pupils who became doctors, dentists, musicians. I have taught pupils who committed suicide. I have taught one pupil who is now serving life for murder. I have sat in countless meetings and written endless reports about all of these young people. I have been held accountable and refused a pay rise because students fell apart in exams, or simply didn’t turn up. As a teacher, you are expected to control the uncontrollable, and when you inevitably can’t, it is suggested that you should’ve tried harder and done more, even when you feel that you don’t have even an ounce more energy to give.

Wow, there is so much wrong with the way education is delivered in the UK. I'm gobsmacked - and very pleased - relieved - to have left when I did. I worry about my children too, worried they won't get the good teachers who've all scarpered for better work elsewhere. Many things resonate with me on this thread - the stomach sinking feeling on the drive to school - the three classes to mark and 5 hours to plan for the next day and its 8pm - the lunch breaks taken up with detentions.

So to summarise: teachers leave because

• society and political class despise the teaching profession
• devolving societal mores and acceptable limits of behaviour
• a tick-box, outcome-led knowledge acquisition system
• being expected to work miracles

With the heart-breaker: kids suffering in this dysfunctional psychodrama.

@ twinkletoes - I think, regrettably, you have summed it all up quite well.

I left teaching at schools and now make the same money tutoring in mostly school hours. I do miss it sometimes but not often.

I just want to point out that not all supply teachers are inexperienced. Many get out of permanent or full time positions because they can no longer stand the pressures. Many are teachers who have taken early retirement to get away from the bullying from senior management because they are expensive and can be replaced by cheaper newly qualified teachers. Often they have been micro managed and made to feel they are incompetent so that they suffer from all the symptoms of extreme stress.

However, they are very often very experienced and competent and find that supply gives them the freedom to walk away from awful schools and bullying senior management. They are often in demand because of their experience and ability. My oh could have worked almost every day for the five years he decided to do a bit of supply at his old school. Obviously he didn’t, but he was very much appreciated by both staff and pupils.

Schools need a variety of different aged teachers. Older ones with knowledge and experience to support the younger ones, and younger ones to bring in new ideas and energy. Sadly all the fun and enjoyment has gone out of teaching. Teachers are so micro managed that they can no longer teach their lessons as they wish. Always the same format, not allowed to be spontaneous. No wonder the pupils get bored. Glad I am now retired.

A lot of it has to do with the bursary effect. I'm an NQT and teach a subject that received no bursary during the training year, we only had 5 on our course in the entire city. Courses that did get bursarys (sometimes as much as £28k spread over 10 months tax free!!) often have 30+ people and high drop out rates

People that are hmming and ahhing over whether to enter the profession, will do so because they are persuaded by the bursary. They then realise it's not the job for them and leave. All 5 of us that did our training are still teaching and happy. In other subjects they're dropping like flies.

Kolo I could have written that myself. I think you speak for every teacher in your post.

I've applied to UCAS- 4 choices, 2 Law & 2 Primary Education 5-11. Am I going to seriously regret going with teaching if I get an offer?

My primary school years were the best years of my life, so much creativity and art encouraged by the school. Now when I've volunteered as a TA a few times the school has changed so much, become an academy, everything is stricter and focused on meeting targets, no fun assemblies anymore and no arts encouraged. I just want the children to have a great time at primary school.

The Behaviour thing....
Q: from a teacher's perspective, is behaviour worse these days?
Why do parents excuse children's naughtiness / not support discipline?
Where has this culture come from --- and what can we do to reverse the problem?

(I am not a teacher, just a concerned parent)

I was reading this and thinking (a bit smugly) about being one of the lucky ones. And then I realised that I've been taking anti-depressants for so long now that I've forgotten they're the only thing that keeps my anxiety at bay. So here I am, still teaching, still mostly enjoying it, but only because the medication works.

Twenty years in London schools here.Was deemed outstanding, head hunted etc, left and would not go back if my life depended on it. I now teach in Ireland, I work 9_4 and have three months totally work free in the summer. No offsteads, observations, learning walks, capability folders, pupil surveys, meetings, micro managing, return to work interviews after one day off, non emails allowed from parents, no marking checks or repetitive useless data inputting. I teach and go home. I mark at work. I am treated lime the highly qualified professional that I am. Pay is better too. UK teachers are deemed scum by the government, the media and the increasing collusion of management. Ireland's educational results far exceed those of UK as teachers are given full autonomy to do their job so do it exceptionally well. That's the difference.

Yes, there are things wrong with our education system.

Firstly, it’s built on lies. Lying to pupils, parents and government about how ‘well’ pupils are doing.

Secondl

I left because of the constant stifling of creativity, lazy rude children and pathetic greasy-pole climbing SLT. I went in one morning and looked at my first class of the day and just felt like walking out, as they could not even bring themselves to just stop talking and get on with quite frankly quite an enjoyable experiment I had painstakingly set up for them. We don't go into it for the gratitude, but it comes to a poor pass when nice middle class children can be shits but SLT blame you for being boring. A former colleague of mine was once denied pay progression as a boy in one of her GCSE classes didn't pass, thus spoiling her results. This is bad, but what worse is that the boy was actually on remand for murder at the time of the exams. But hey, if her teaching had been more interesting maybe he wouldn't have gone out and stabbed someone.....

We are held accountable for results, yet those actually sitting the exams are not.

Laurie Taylor’s programme on the damaging effect of metrics touched on how this accountability leads to teaching for the test and damages everyone involved. It’s well worth listening to.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0001l85

y - excuse posting too soon - it’s built on bullying. Leadership bullying staff to work longer and harder and to tell better lies. Punishing staff if children don’t behave. Making staff believe they can create success in conscripts who don’t want to be there.

Whatever. It’s not really education at all.