to think there is something seriously wrong with our education system..

[TwinkleToes101]

when teachers are leaving in droves?

Just recently reading about record numbers of newly trained teachers giving up within 5 years (that was me 14 years ago), then on MN today partners having depression/breakdowns and all the posters who teach knew the person in question was a teacher...what the F is going so badly wrong with teaching??

I thought my reasons for leaving were personal: too little me time, too much low-level classroom disruption. Other postgrads I know left as I did because of work load. But don't other professions have high workloads/stresses?

What's going to happen though, in education, if teachers are leaving in droves?

Fuck knows, because post-Brexit we aren’t going to be able to replace them with immigrants either.

So far, to make up for unfilled posts, they’ve got non-specialists to teach. Which pps have pointed out is not as good as a specialist teacher. Or they’ve advertised for unqualified teachers, so there are people who aren’t trained teachers who are teaching classes. Or schools have tried to cover by using supply/student teachers/cover supervisors and have a more experienced member of staff set the work, and probably share marking out amongst the other teachers. Or put 2 classes together and someone teaches them all with a TA if they’re lucky. Those were some of the measures I saw out in place before I left 3 years ago. I don’t really know what will happen when it hits critical mass. Probably some scheme to paper over the cracks again - there was talk about getting ex military in to teach, to tackle the behaviour issue. The gvt will probably find some way of dragging anyone off the street and let them lead classes, rather than address the complex and costly problem of retention crisis. Our children these days aren’t getting a great deal.

It’s not an unsolvable problem. If the Ed sec really wanted to sort out the problem they could actually talk to schools and educationalists. Even though we aren’t teaching, there are thousands and thousands of excellent qualified teachers in the country who are choosing not to teach at the moment, but could come back if the conditions improved.

Another day, I found myself gluing in sheets x30 to explain why I hadn't seen a class to produce work in 6 weeks due to a string of off-timetable/ INSET/ project sessions that kept falling on my only lesson of the week

I had to provide meaningful written feedback for my reception class despite pointing out that most would be unable to read it. I also had to annotate their books with “verbal feedback given” to prove that I had done this and so that I could demonstrate progress from that point onwards.

The following year, the same school had 4 different consultants in to advise on early years - each consultant had a different philosophy and each time the early years staff were required to alter the classroom set up and their teaching methods. Thankfully, I had left by then, but the teacher ended up have a breakdown and had the summer term off with stress.

What's going to happen though, in education, if teachers are leaving in droves

I want to show the ridiculousness of the education and training in this country at the moment.

You can include nursing, teaching primary schools children, trades eg carpentry, plumbing, electricians etc and probably many more than I can think of.

I will give an example of my Ds

Ds wants to qualify in a trade. He is in the 2nd year of the 5 year course, doing extremely well. Next year he will need to work a year as an apprentice.
Unfortunately because he is probably not going to get his English GCSE then he can’t do the apprenticeship.
Everything stops. He will have got as far as he can go.

However if he goes abroad he can qualify in the trade. There he wouldn’t need any qualifications to complete the course and training.

Then as a qualified person he can come back and the UK would welcome him with open arms because there is a shortage of this trade.

So why if they accept people who qualified outside of the UK without the equivalent of English and Maths GCSE or a degree then why do they insist those that go through the course and training in the UK have English and Maths

You can apply this to many different careers especially those we have a shortage in atm where we are employing people who haven’t had to jump through the same hoops.

oliver
That’s so bloody depressing .... ☹️

I thinknparents can do their bit byvreading the riot act if their child gets told off at school and diciplined rather than making a fuss. United front is needed unless the child has been unfairly punished.

malificent7 my ds has dyslexia and dysgraphia. He couldn't read what was on the board let alone answer comprehension questions.

2+ hours every night with a lot of input trying to work out the simplest way of answering the questions. Then transferring them to tracing paper then him tracing over the letters because the NC had to be adhered to whether the children could read or write.

He would get into trouble if he didn't do the homework and the punishment was him losing his play time and he had to go and get his lunch then return to the classroom to stare at a blank piece of paper.

Would you have me shout at him aswell

Oliversmumsarmy

Not that its any comfort but your DS is one of about 20% that the education system is failing.

At least pre gove he could have done multiple vocational subjects and then done his trade.

So our education system is failing 20% of the future workforce.

I think you dont need any qualifications to be an MP.

The powers that be might want to reassess the education system as ds's plan B is to be an MP or a stand up comedian or both.

Then they might be in for a huge shake up they didn't see coming.

So if there is no point in passing English or Maths, is there any point in staying in school past 14 ish if you want to learn a trade?

Walkingdeadfangirl

The point is more that instead of being able to access functional everyday Math and English skills all pupils are required to follow a curriculum that is design to fail those without the ability to pass (that is really badly worded).

This is how gove improved the education system.

BoneyBackJefferson OK so correct me if I am wrong, not a teacher.
You are saying students should only follow a curriculum and take exams where it has been predetermined they will pass.

I get the concept but fail to see the merits. What is the point of school?

So if there is no point in passing English or Maths, is there any point in staying in school past 14 ish if you want to learn a trade

This isn't just about learning a trade.

This for everything students want to make a career out of.

Dp has not got an English O level yet has a degree in Law he did at night school whilst working towards another equally intensive qualification. He then went onto qualify in another career (because he was working in the industry). This particular qualifications usually took 6 years to complete. 12 exams , one exam taken every 6 months. He took all 12 at once and passed11 and passed the last 1 a year after he started studying.

A school friend of mine from primary school. Complete geek but couldn't write legibly at all, let alone do comprehension or wrote a story. I know he failed English O level but I saw him in the news a few years ago heading up a research team into something scientific.

As it stands neither dp or this school friend would have been able to qualify in anything because they failed one exam.

They would probably be working in a call centre now instead of finding the cure for cancer or being a director of a large company.

I would guess the figure of 20% of pupils being failed by the system we have now is probably a lot higher

What's going to happen though, in education, if teachers are leaving in droves?

They get unqualified teachers or TAs or supervisors to deliver work that’s been set by a qualified teacher, then that teacher has to mark it and support the person who’s delivering the work.

My job included preparing and marking work for my own classes which is fair enough. But imo my job did NOT include preparing and marking work for someone else’s classes, answering their questions, popping in during my free time to explain tricky concepts to their class, etc. If it’s their class and they’re being paid for it then they need to handle it themselves. I’m only being paid for MY OWN classes. If they can’t handle it themselves then that’s not my problem.

Just one of the many reasons I have no wish to return to teaching when I’m no longer a SAHM.

They get unqualified teachers or TAs or supervisors to deliver work that’s been set by a qualified teacher, then that teacher has to mark it and support the person who’s delivering the work.

I do not think parents have any idea of how prevalent this is in schools.

They get unqualified teachers or TAs or supervisors to deliver work that’s been set by a qualified teacher, then that teacher has to mark it and support the person who’s delivering the work.

This happens a lot already. I'm a Cover Supervisor and have been covering the same English class every day for the last 3 weeks. I was told last week that I would be covering this class indefinitely as the teacher, who is not off sick, is finding it too hard to cope. So while this teacher is in the staff room, I am covering their class.

Now, to be clear, I will help anyone out and I like this person very much but I am covering for them while also covering every other lesson in the day. I have to meet the teacher after school every day to update them etc. and have now been asked to help with marking too. English is my subject and I enjoy it but it doesn't change the fact that I am not a qualified teacher - as a parent I probably wouldn't be happy with this. I also do a lunchtime club 3 days a week because the teacher who runs it is off with stress.

I work in a core department, big high school and out of 10 staff, 2 are off and one regularly requires assistance in the classroom. It took 7 months to recruit for one teacher job in our department last year.

And yet, those of us who are lucky enough not to be signed off with stress/depression are berated, criticised, undermined at every turn. I’m a ‘good’ teacher. Not ‘outstanding’ wholly, just trundle in reliably, keep order, get ok results. Just a spuddy, steady teacher. There aren’t many like me now. I hope to be in this for the long haul and I’m only still here as, after 15 years in the classroom I’ve never gone for promotion, tlr etc. I’m told that looks strange on my cv but honestly I’d prefer to be in a job than burnt out.
The shitty parents I have to deal with (‘he can’t do a detention for having his phone out in assembly and refusing to hand it over’) are so often the last straw.
I have secondary age dc and I’m considering private Ed for one for the first time ever because of the state of staff retention.
Schemes like teach first are great in many ways but I worry that they encourage young teachers to view the job as a stepping stone rather than a career.

You are saying students should only follow a curriculum and take exams where it has been predetermined they will pass.

I don't think Boney meant this at all (no doubt she will be along to correct me if I am wrong). What I understood her to mean is that if you are going to go into a trade, then there are things you will definitely need - to be able to communicate clearly in English, write quotes and invoices etc, but you won't need to have studied Shakespeare or to know what, say, a fronted adverbial is. In fact they do fronted adverbials in Primary school - I have been an MFL teacher for 30 years and didn't know what these were until I looked them up a couple of years ago. I can't say they have enhanced my life or career in any way.

They need a qualification which shows that they can use and understand the English and Maths required for their job - and they a should be in with a chance of passing it rather than being condemned to failure all their working life.

grundys , I hear you. Could have written that myself. Except the promotion bit and the length of service. The put up ahd shut up attitude is shocking.

@Walkingdeadfangirl

The saying is

Everybody is a Genius. But If You Judge a Fish by Its Ability to Climb a Tree, It Will Live Its Whole Life Believing that It is Stupid

20% of the pupils in school are not able to access the curriculum, through SEND or whatever, secondary schools are having to increase KS4 to 3 years and increase the pace of learning to fit in all of the required information.

These pupils are dropping further and further behind, teachers can't slow down. If pupils are taken out of classes its Tech, Art, Drama, Music etc. that they loose out on.

We should be looking at securing the basics for these children before we start trying to load them down and setting them up to fail.

Because their is no point in giving them a 2 hr exam if they can only understand less than a tenth that in the booklet.

What I was trying to say was that we should return to the old system of some courses that lead to a qualification need a certain number of GCSEs and some don’t need any at all.

The most successful financially and happiest people I know don’t have an English or Maths O Level or both.

They either didn’t need them or in the case of someone like my dp he needed 5 O levels but they weren’t specific O levels.

Some one could take 11 GCSEs and pass 10 with an A* but fail English or Maths and wouldn’t be able to do the career of their choosing.

But if they went abroad they could qualify and come back and be employed here as they had qualified as a plumber/accountant etc

Oliversmumsarmy

I do agree. Education should be accessible to all.

But in order for the curriculum to be broadened and brought back in to line with this way of thinking requires a shift away from results and data as the be all and end all of schools.

The data have landed
First they said they needed data
about the children
to find out what they’re learning.
Then they said they needed data
about the children
to make sure they are learning.
Then the children only learnt
what could be turned into data.
Then the children became data.

Michael Rosen

it depends on the child and circumstances but with the current condition of the education system do any teachers on here think home schoolings a better option? Or would you still recommend school for most?

It's so depressing reading all these posts. I've been teaching primary aged children for 30 years. Like everyone is saying, the constant demands for endless paperwork, for all children to make smooth linear progress in all subjects, the insistence that all children, despite their tough experiences or needs, should also make the same smooth progress, the narrowing of the curriculum so that it just focuses on measured data, the sudden unannounced learning walks from SLT, the constant criticism... it's all creating a hugely stressful environment which is so damaging for both staff and pupils.

I'm in my 50's and have my eye on retirement now. It keeps me going. I won't be working til I'm 67 though. I'll retire on my teacher's pension as soon as i can and will manage somehow, maybe by doing part time unskilled work if I can. Younger teachers don't have that luxury.

Even now on Christmas Eve I keep getting sudden waves of panic about the amount of work I need to do once Christmas is over.

I wouldn't advise anyone to get into teaching. Though of course the best part is the children and getting to know all these little people and supporting them all you can.

I think for primary schools at least replacing ofsted with a more supportive, school-based moderating system, and removing the utterly useless and damaging testing systems like sats and the phonics test, (it makes my blood boil to walk past 5 year old children in the corridors practising their reading of lists of words like "splick ) reintroducing the shocking idea that other areas of the curriculum, like art and music and sport are of equal importance and value to literacy and maths, would go a huge way to solving much of the stress and some of the behaviour issues in our schools.