To wonder how much longer school will do nativity plays?

[GreatestShowUnicorn]

As there is no biblical scripture to show Jesus was born at the time of the winter solstice. Surely it’s just teaching creationism or that the world is flat?

No, not quite. That 3.3% represents 100% of those seats which are reserved in the House of Lords to represent and preach a particular narrative of God and to say prayers before each meeting.

I’m fed up of constant attacks on Christianity by oh so right on pseudo liberals. Most of the time these people are sat there championing their own cult that of looking oh so down with the kids, misplaced political correctness etc all to make themselves look good.

I don't recognise this at all tbh. It's not just 'right-on pseudo liberals' who are anti-religion. Christianity is an anachronism, churches are pretty empty and a lot of normal people are quite rightly wondering why things like mainstream state primary schools are still under the control of a church none of the children or parents go to or are remotely interested in. People are baffled and resentful about why religion still has any influence in society. Also, wtf has being 'down with the kids' got to do with it?

I attended my year 6 ds' school carol service yesterday, which was held in the church. Only 4 parents came including me, whereas events at school are very well-attended.

'Normal people' are as free to push for the disestablishment of the state Churches as the rest of us, presumably? I think pp was talking about the snipey "invisible sky fairy!" type of comments, though, which is probably not the most effective way of bringing about broad constitutional change if that's the intent.

No idea why so many parents want their kids to attend denominational schools whose religion they don't themselves follow, always seemed a bit odd to me, but maybe something to do with schools choice wherever they live?

Why shouldn't we remember celebrate our Christian heritage - even if we are not practising Christians?

Because a majority of people in the UK aren't Christians and therefore its not their heritage. By all means if you believe that then celebrate it but don't force it on children and families who don't want it.

It IS the vast majority of people's heritage even if they aren't practising Christians today. That's exactly the point I was making.

Pierre, you have a right to believe that but dont force it on others, especially their children.

I am guessing that is the point of this thread, it used to be part of many peoples culture, not so much now and probably very few in the future.

churches are pretty empty

Not where I live. Evangelical churches are thriving and one in particular has 400 every Sunday.

rubyslipper1
all you non believers will not enter into the kingdom of god and will face eternal darkness. The second coming is near . prepare yourselves, soften your hearts and pray to god. god bless

Hahahahahahahaha

I don't know why some on here keep insisting that us atheists are only anti christianity, all religions are made up, I make no distinctions between any of them.

I don't know why some on here keep insisting that us atheists are only anti christianity, all religions are made up, I make no distinctions between any of them.

I was pondering this earlier, and I wonder if the fact that Christianity seems to regard evangelising as a mission statement that causes it to attract so much flak ? I've never once been accosted by people of the Jewish, or Muslim or Hindu or Sikh or Buddhist faiths telling me that my soul is in danger if I don't follow their ways.

Or maybe not.

People of faith have a choice of 30% more state funded schools than people who do not have a faith.

Now tell me there’s no Christian privilege in the UK.

@dgrossetti

A little lesson for you. A lot of the countries you think of as Muslim eg Iran, Iraq and Syria used to be called Mesopotamia which is where indigenous Christians come from. These people are Chaldeans and Assyrians among others. My husband and his mums side are Assyrian and his mum was forced out of Iran after the revolution of the 1970s.

As we speak Christians in the Middle East are being persecuted, churches are being burnt down and Christians are being murdered for their faith by Muslims. Look up the Assyrian genocide.

Many of them have now fled to the west, and they can never return to their homeland.

Many religions have (and still do) force their religion on others. In the uk we tolerate all faiths but this is not the case in the Middle East. The same goes for Egypt and the Coptic Christians, a lot of them have had to flee.

I find it abhorrent when people are so derogatory about the Christian faith when yes, bad things were done in the past but in come countries other religions still do it now.

@Walkingdeadfangirl

Do you celebrate Christmas? Easter? Shrove Tuesday? Even if you are not religious it is part of western culture, @pierrebezukov is stating a fact, not forcing anything on anyone.

In the uk we tolerate all faiths

not Jedi, apparently ?

I've never once been accosted by people of the Jewish, or Muslim or Hindu or Sikh or Buddhist faiths telling me that my soul is in danger if I don't follow their ways.

But if you lived somewhere like Iran, it would be more than your soul in danger. Please don’t imply that Islam is more tolerant than Christianity because it isn’t, muslims are told in the koran that Islam is the only true. faith. The most extreme form of Islam (wahabalism) teaches death to all non believers in the most violent way. Children are actually being taught that in some of their schools. Don’t even bother denying it.
You should worry about the spread of that rather than some harmless preacher trying to save your soul.

Jedi failed to protect the Republic from the Sith threat, they have only themselves to blame.

So, if you lived in India would you be a dick about Diwali celebrations? Or would you accept that it's part of the local culture and history and join in.

But if you lived somewhere like Iran

As I have said more than once, I was trying to seriously answer a PPs question as to why it seemed Christianity came in for so much flak [in the UK - my assumption].

I wasn't trying to run a top of the pops for worldwide religions, nor a beauty parade for the most ethical ones. That's for another thread maybe.

As quite a few posters have noted, the cultural history of the UK - like much of Europe - can only be truly understood if you take the time and trouble to understand something about Christianity. Not as a believer, but in the way a believer would.

Ironically, I can get a little narky when people go all uber-Dawkins and spout their beliefs unprompted. Ultimately none of us will ever know who is 100% right, wrong, or in between.

I hope I've not deliberately offended anyone on this thread - if I have it's unwarranted as I don't think anyone has set out to offend me.

And perish the thought you may want to convert from Islam

Plus I think if you try to relegate Christianity in the UK eventually it will leave a vacuum for a less tolerant outlook

I think the main reason why schools might stop doing nativity plays may be nothing to do with whether or not this country is broadly Christian or not. It will probably the behaviour of parents at such events that will drive some schools to stop doing them.

I think if you try to relegate Christianity in the UK eventually it will leave a vacuum for a less tolerant outlook

What was Chestertons comment ... "When you stop believing in God, it's not that you believe in nothing, but that you'll believe in anything ?"

Walkingdeadfangirl

Because a majority of people in the UK aren't Christians and therefore its not their heritage. By all means if you believe that then celebrate it but don't force it on children and families who don't want it.

Is it being forced on them? Surely it's the case that if you want your child to be excluded for religious reasons then the school would grant their wish.

Seems more the case that what some would actually prefer is the traditional nativity to be removed?

If that's the case then you're well within your right to express that opinion. Remember though, you can't moan if the majority overrule you.

And you can explain to the kid why you're not letting them join in.

You haven't been on the feminism board as it used to be if you haven't seen anyone criticising the misogyny of Islam.
The reason people on mn focus on Christianity is because mn is predominantly British people, and the majority of British people have been brought up with Christianity.
It is the same room reason people on mn criticise or defend London rather than Tehran. It is because people talk here about what they know about. There is no conspiracy against Christianity.

I find it abhorrent when people are so derogatory about the Christian faith What is derogatory about saying, "I tolerate your right to believe in whatever religion you want but please don't force it upon my children"?

"Do you celebrate Christmas? Easter? Shrove Tuesday?"
Christmas=Santa, Easter=chocolate bunnies, don't know what shrove Tuesday is and the nativity play is not part of any celebration or tradition I have (nor most people I know).

Surely it's the case that if you want your child to be excluded for religious reasons then the school would grant their wish Why should my, tax payer funded, child's education suffer because a minority want to practise their religion/culture?

Surely for 2 thousand years the Christian culture/religion was to practise the nativity in Church? So why dont you uphold the tradition with like minded people in a church, why the need to force it on people who dont believe in this stuff?

Are schools really doing nativity plays because a bunch of enthusiastic Christians are forcing parents and children to participate against their will? I think most parents who like it do so because they find it cute, not because they have deeply-held religious beliefs.