Mil - Is this normal behaviour or interfering/controlling?

[NeedAGoodUsernameThatIsntTaken]

For every birthday she texts or rings DH to make sure he sends a card and present, then rings him later to make sure he has done it. Sometimes she even tries to pick the present he should get or tell him how much he should spend (like trying to get DH to get a 50 pound birthday present for his aunt when she gets him nothing, sometimes not even a card). She even does this for thank you cards as well, telling us when we must send them. We didn't send thank you cards for the gifts we received for our son soon after having him so she send us a pack of thank you cards in the post to send people (we were busy and would have got round to it later). She even told DH who to send our baby scan pictures to, and that we must announce the birth on facebook. Just lots of make sure you do this then calls later to make sure he does it.

She didn’t want us to have a baby telling my DH "I hope your not trying for a baby". When we were were moving in together and DH was buying a house step FIL sent an email to both of us insinuating I might be a gold digger so be careful, and make sure we both do what is right etc (worded in the nicest possible way and I’m sure it was MIL’s idea). She told my DH the maximum amount he should spend on an engagement ring. At my sons christening we were trying to take pictures and she was in my DH's face saying we need to donate (we were going to after taking some photos) and she was demanding to know how much. His brother once went on a blind date with a women 5 years older than him and she was shouting and shouting about the age difference (I was staying at her house and could hear the yelling through the walls). She once thought I said I was a couple of years older than I am and the look on her face. When we first started dating she said I should really make an effort and wear makeup. If he puts on a little weight, she tells him he needs to walk to work (5 miles away), only have 1 meal a day, asks if he is eating to much junk food, and when she visits touches his belly and makes comments like "ow dear". We have decided I will be a sahm because with the cost of travel and childcare I would be just about breaking even or paying to work depending on how many days I can work from home. MIL is not happy with this telling my DH I should just work because I need a job and even tried to bribe him by saying she will pay for part of nursery (not an option because she would hold this over our head).

She constantly talks to me and DH as if we are children. When DH told her I was pregnant she was almost in tears on the phone asking how will we cope. For the first month after giving birth she would ring every day, giving unsolicited advice and pointing out the obvious. I really have to grit my teeth when talking to her because she constantly talks to me like a child.

She uses emotional blackmail to try and get what she wants. Like after always spending Christmas at her house, the first time we were going to spend it with my parents her reply was "but it could be your grandmothers last Christmas". One weekend we said she couldn't visit because I had a bad mastitis infection and I was devastated we had to top up with formula because our baby was losing weight. I especially didn't want to see her because she has been against breastfeeding since I have got pregnant making negative comments. She was constantly telling my husband "my friend started formula feeding and they and baby were much happier, and they got a prep machine and it was so much easier, ill get you one and you can formula feed". She also came into my bedroom when I was trying to breastfeed and she told me “its just so difficult, there is really no shame in giving up”. Because she couldn't visit that weekend she was shouting at DH over the phone saying "I'm just trying to help", and then she didn't visit for months and just sent texts implying we were stopping her from visiting and when will I be able to see my grandchild (we were just stopping her that one weekend). She also looked for any minor excuse to try to blame him or scold him for something.

She will lie and deny a lot of the things I'm saying here or say “I’m just trying to help”. She will deny things when its really obvious she is lying. She once made my DH buy a dress for me and his sister when they were in a store together. Mine mysteriously disappeared and his sister got it as a gift from MIL and when my DH asked where the dress was she denied all knowledge of its existence.

AIBU to be annoyed by this? Is this normal standard parent/ Mil behaviour?

This is the behaviour of a woman who judges others by the conduct of their adult children and assumes others will judge her. The cards thing is a classic example - auntie whoever will disapprove if she doesn't get her thank you card in two weeks, etc. I would definitely be wary of her being one-on-one when your child is older.

You say it's very outing but I can relate to a lot of what you have written! You ask if her behaviour is normal/controlling? Normal for a mil? Yes. Any other sane human being? Of course not!! Controlling? Well yes, of course, she is your mil!

I also have an over involved mil (and fil) they live 10 minutes drive away but we see them once every month or 2, it'd take too long to explain why! My in laws seemed OK right up until we got engaged and then pregnant. They were always over involved in my husband's life but he just went along with it for a quiet life, I'd roll my eyes a lot and tell him to stop over sharing. When we said we were expecting our first child it was as if two 15 year olds had said they were expecting!! My mil cried and said "it won't have a very good start in life" - we were in our 30s, engaged, in the process of buying a house (with a huge deposit we saved hard for!) and planning our wedding which we'd also saved for. It was ridiculous!! It was as if that was the point she realised she'd lost control. He didn't tell her he was asking me to marry him, he didn't tell her we were trying for a baby as it was our business not hers. She hadn't been consulted and was out the loop. From this point on her behaviour has got worse, our wedding well that's another story.

I've no advice unfortunately, I fallout with my husband a lot about it, we now have 2 children and we barely see his parents as I have no time for them. I could write pages and pages about the batshit things my mil has done, I have come to the conclusion though that her behaviour comes down to wanting to still be the mother with the 12 year old boy that she can tell what to do, it's a control thing. Shortly after we got engaged and pregnant with our first child my mil said some nasty things to my husband about me, my husband told me right away what she said, my mil couldn't understand why he told me and said "that was private between me and my son". My mil struggles to accept that I am now number one and not her and that her son's loyalty is with me. I've found the best way I deal with her behaviour is to keep my distance and ignore, it's difficult though.

RomanyRoots thankfully he doesn't do everything Mil wants. She wanted DH to go to a funeral (a friend of hers, not a family member, someone he hadn't even meet) at the other end of the country (5 hours plus journey away) when I was 38/39 weeks pregnant and I can't drive and my parents are 60 miles away too and was worried I would go into labour while he was away. Was terrified of giving birth. Thankfully he said no to her, but that didn't stop her sending him constant messages about him not going and saying in person, "how everyone else was there (her 2 other children)" and "people were asking where you were" etc. It made me feel guilty, thinking i was being unreasonable.
He also didn't tell her when I was in labour at my request. We did tell my parents (I know that was quite mean and I was being unfair but there was a real change she would have come to the hospital and she would have been calling him constantly). But my parents drove us home from the hospital and to the shops for extra baby supplies. When she found out my parents knew when she didn't she was fuming and even sent my parents a nasty text message about it. My parents didn't believe how bad she was until they got that text message.

I would definitely be wary of her being one-on-one when your child is older I just need to get my DH to agree not to let her have one on one access which might be very difficult

cadburysflake That does sound very similar to my MIL and it got worse when I was pregnant, and the reaction to being pregnant made me feel like we were a couple of young teens expecting. I would hate to live 10 minutes away from her, I am dreading her retiring in a few months because I know she will want to visit more and even stay at our house.

he just accepts her behaviour and tells her most of the details about our life she wants to know
You mainly have a dh problem - HE won't insist on boundaries with her.

My DH would never agree to go low or no contact
He doesn't have to - you can though.

I really have to grit my teeth when talking to her because she constantly talks to me like a child
Why do YOU tolerate this?
Answer her back, tell her straight that you don't accept her digs, jibes and constant controlling tactics and that you don't believe she's trying to help.
So what if she decides to go off in a mood and sulk - leave her to it....then ensure you rinse and repeat when she tries again.

She is the main source of tension in our marriage, probably 90% of the arguments. I don't know what to do because I think I am
at the end of my tether with and its just going to get worse when she retires

You need to decide on your boundaries and spell them out clearly to your dh.
Ultimately, it comes down to whether he respects you as his wife - or not.
If he doesn't - then you need to decide whether this is the kind of life you want for yourself and your dc.

You make it too easy for your dh to tolerate her nonsense because you don't speak up to her or insist on being treated with respect.

Personally i'd let rip and put her straight the next time she spoke to me or pulled any of that shit in my home....and i wouldn't give a flying fuck if her or dh got upset about it.
They sure don't give a shit about your feelings do they?

How I got my Dh on board was to threaten him with a divorce. I told him that I hated her because it was easier than hating him but it was all his fault for not putting us first.

I reminded him that his mother alienated FILs DM and FILs sisters and also DHs sister in law by being a control freak and if DH wanted to lose me like FIL had all his family because “you know what she’s like” he was on the right track.

It actually scared him to realise how serious I was. I didn’t cry, I didn’t shout, I just had a very matter of fact conversation. Now MIL does not get to make demands on my family, well she tries but is told no.

She cried, she got “sick”, she got mad and then FIL told her to wind her neck in or she would lose us all. She is actually nice to me now.

I also call her out in her antics. I tell her you are nagging me and I am an adult so please don’t do that. I remind her she gets sick everytime someone in the family has an occasion that takes the attention of her. I tell her it’s her son’s job to organise her presents so when she didn’t like the present I bought it was her son’s present buying she was criticising. Now she loves every present. And my absolute most used phrase, my house, my rules.

And I actually appreciate that she realised she loves DH and DC more than she needed to control everything and we all get on now.

Sometimes she still irritates me but I probably irritate her too but we would not be friends in any other circumstances and are very different personalities.

Had the same problem with my own mother and she is practically cut off. See her once or twice a year for a couple of hours and that is it. Because she refused to acknowledge that she was the problem. But I think the reason I was able to deal with MIL is because I grew up with my mother so knew all the tricks already.

cadburysflake What happened at your wedding if you don't mind me asking? My Mil looked like she was attending a funeral not a wedding.
Do/ did you let your Mil have one on one contact with your DC?

Stand up for yourself by telling this woman exactly what she is doing that is pissing you off and that you will not deal with her bullshit any longer. She needs to change her ways or she won’t be part of your lives. Job done!

Tell your DH you're not putting up with it anymore and don't. Don't engage, ignore or shut her down when she is being rude/ridiculous.

Tell your DH in no uncertain terms you will not allow your DS to be drawn into the madness.

Agree some ground rules with your DH about how often she can visit when she retires so that you have already agreed and stick to it.

Try and let the unsolicited advice etc just wash over you.

Why are you so concerned about her having one to one contact with your DC? What is it you think she is going to do or say?

You DC will come in contact with all sorts of people and you need to be there for him to explain why they act like they do and how to deal with them.

So for instance - your MIL is guilting him for something or other, you tell him to tell her "NO" / Ignore her / pul her up on it or just walk away but that he should always tell you or dad so you can approach her if need be and tell her to wind her neck in

myfatarse isn't it different if its your grandmother or mother. Bit terrible if your gran stops talking to you and pretends you don't exist because you don't do what she wants? Worried she will guilt or bribe him into doing things like spending Christmas day at her house every Christmas etc

@NeedAGoodUsernameThatIsntTaken let him, doesn't mean you and DC have to, and if he puts his mum first more fool hi

@myfatarse I would NEVER leave my DD with my MIL, when my SIL left her 8 year old with her whilst she nipped to the shop, she told her 'your mummy's going to die if she doesn't stop using sun beds' LIKE WTF is wrong with you !!

@needagoodusernamethatisnttaken - how old is your son? You're talking about something that is so far off that hopefully by that time you will all see what she is like and how to deal with her, will have set your own routines up around christmas that it's a non issue (IMO)

and while i understand you wouldn't want your child left with an adult who would say shit like @HJWT mentioned, do you feel like your MIL would/could resort to this?

needagoodusername it was literally a full days worth of things! If I described it it'd be so outing there's no way you'd not guess it was me! I laugh about it now 2 years on but for ages I felt like she'd ruined my wedding day.

When my first child was born (she's coming up to 3 now) I did let my mil babysit on two occasions. One of them was a full-ish weekend whilst I was on my hen do, dd was 6 months old. I was gone 2 days and when I got back she'd bought her own high chair, a pram and a load of new outfits that she'd dressed her in all weekend. I'd washed and packed a load of outfits, dropped our high chair and our pram off, I found it totally bizarre that they had gone to mothercare and spent all this money kitting themselves out when I hadn't ever said it would be a regular thing. The thing is the only reason they had her was because my mum was away on holiday, I know I know that's awful using her. When I came back from my hen do I said to my husband (he'd been working so they only had her during the day) that I found it bizarre that they'd gone out and bought all this stuff when we'd dropped off everything needed, it almost felt like they had a dolly to play with for the weekend dressing her up how they liked and taking her here there and everywhere.

After our wedding I reduced contact I was angry for a long time over the wedding, and they never looked after our eldest again. We had another child quite close in age and they have never looked after him alone ever. It's a source of conflict between me and my husband but I feel like it's difficult to allow them to basically treat me like a doormat but then look after my children. If they did something I wasn't happy about my husband wouldn't say anything, if I say anything I'm the bad guy, I don't need the stress of that kind of dynamic. When we reduced contact my mil wrote to me (she lives 10 minutes drive away and is on whatsapp!!) she said that I was cruel and denying my child a family as my child is part of her family (not me though, I'm just the vessel producing them!). She said that not seeing my daughter felt like when she lost one of her children, it was complete and utter emotional blackmail. I was pregnant with my second child at the time and didn't need the hassle, they came round our house to sort it out, they screamed and shouted at me 7 months pregnant and that was the final straw. Now I see them once every 2 months or so for about an hour.

It's such a mess and is really the only thing I argue about with my husband, I understand it's still his parent's but some of their behaviour is just so ridiculous even he can't defend it. I'm "lucky" that my mil openly said things about me and her behaviour is obvious, her writing a letter meant that even my family could see it too (she wrote to my parents too to tell them I was cruel, it was like school reports day all over again haha), my husband does side with me on most things but he still wants to see them and have our children see them.

myfatarse he is 1 year old, yeah it's along while off but been with my DH for 9 years now and there still isn't the boundaries in place and he still takes the "ow well that's just what she is like" stance.

Not sure what she will do/ resort too. She used to make my DH cry when he was a young child because he got some spelling wrong at school. She pretended he didn't exist for 2 weeks when he was a teenager because he dared to not get the part time job she wanted him to get - surely that's a bit abusive?

" he is fine with telling her most details of our life"

Oh dear.

He needs to stop that-MIL probably thinks that he still wants her help, advice & approval for everything.

It ay be "how she is" but he needs to stop enabling her.

At the very least you need to talk to your dh about how she is affecting you. Not argue, not row, just talk (or if you can't, then write it down for him, but keep it calm and low key).

You are not 4 year olds, and you at least are not happy with being treated like a child.
What for hi seems normal is to you controlling and interfering.
It is not just 'how she is', it is controlling and interfering.
You are very worried that when she's no longer occupied by work that she'll spend more time interfering.
That you dread her coming to stay and dread even more having stay with her.

There are some books often recommended on MN in these circumstances, by Susan Forward, Toxic Parents and, I think, Toxic Inlaws.

Oh, and you need to impress upon him that your need for privacy should be much more respected by him.

cadburysflake
If they did something I wasn't happy about my husband wouldn't say anything, if I say anything I'm the bad guy
It's such a mess and is really the only thing I argue about with my husband, I understand it's still his parent's but some of their behaviour is just so ridiculous even he can't defend it.
yeah same here

my mil openly said things about me and her behaviour is obvious, her writing a letter meant that even my family could see it too
My Mil wouldn't write it down (other than the email saying be careful I could be a gold digger, which she got FIL to send) so she can try to deny it later

You'll be amazed how much you change and grow a back bone once you have children and you can see how things you have let "go" in the past will/could have an impact on them. It's almost as "it's ok i can handle this, it doesn't really matter" but once you see that it could have an effect on your child(ren) you'll suddenly no longer go along with it.

Yes, her actions sound harsh at times with you DH growing up (and i'm sure loving to to a certain extent too if you ask your husband) but she wont be parenting your DC, she wont have hours and hours/days and days/years and years to manipulate them, you will be there most of the time with them and put her straight if she gets out of hand.

Jux
you need to talk to your dh about how she is affecting you. Not argue, not row, just talk when I bring up his mum it seems to always result in arguing, feels like going around in circles because he doesn't want to set boundaries and just accepts her behaviour

need to impress upon him that your need for privacy should be much more respected by him luckily he seems to be slowly getting the message and telling her less

OK, if it always leads to a row then write it down, and say why you're writing it rather than trying to talk about it.

He is doing the equivalent of putting his hands over his ears and going "la la la" and that has to stop. So you have to get it through to him one way or another so it actually sinks in that this is a serious issue which cannot be glossed over, and which is having a seriously negative effect on his wife and shall do so on his child too.

I had my tubes tied rather than have to live through mil's attitude to my baby after the first one, putting paid to dh's desire for many more. MN wasn't around so much back then.

Unfortunately there seems like nothing you can do. This is the way it is. The problem far greater than your mil is your dh.

He really doesnt care that much about you if he is allowing you to be treated this way. If he is happy to accepts 'that's how she is' then that doesnt mean you should as well.

How did he justify the message that she sent your parents?

How did he justify the message that she sent your parents? He didn't, his reaction was a mix between c'est la vie that's just how she is and annoyed I was bringing up his mother once again.