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AIBU?

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Why the the leavers so scared of a second vote?

725 replies

StrumALum · 16/12/2018 15:27

I don't get it.

The leavers were fed some lies, that much is obvious.

What I don't get though is that if the leavers are so sure of themselves then why are they so worried about a second vote? If it's 'the will of the people' then it will be the same outcome anyway.

Or are they panicking because now the lies (like the bus) have been exposed, people are now more clued up and they were relying on people not being clued up to get the vote through in the first place?

OP posts:
Justanotherlurker · 17/12/2018 10:18

thought you were a Brexitier?

No, ive always been a remainer and stated as such, just like pointing holes in some of the holier than thou remainers who are just repeating headlines without any cursery research themselves, ironically usually calling all leavers thick to boot.

Or with some, they are apparently very anti-neolib and then being very pro EU as I am yet to hear how they square that hole.

jasjas1973 · 17/12/2018 10:18

We have had the vote. It's democracy

Coming out with one liners doesn't take away from the fact that another vote is a way out of the deadlock, plus it can be argued that the material facts have now changed and we'd be voting on what Leave will really mean; for NI, that leave cannot deliver what was promised in 2016 and the costs involved, both to the NHS and our economy.

longwayoff · 17/12/2018 10:20

Morning fiery. Its not democracy. Its a self serving distortion of democracy perpetrated by liars, crooks, chancers, shysters and con men, cobbled up on a bed of lies, funded by dodgy money, possibly from a hostile power. The result should not be considered valid. Unless you're Arthur Daley or Del Boy.

MiddlingMum · 17/12/2018 10:24

Because they're scared they'll be proved wrong.

mothertruck3r · 17/12/2018 10:28

The irony of Tony Blair trying to impose a second referendum on the UK when it was his policies which ended up causing Brexit.

bellinisurge · 17/12/2018 10:33

Remainer here who thinks Blair should shut the fuck up.

longwayoff · 17/12/2018 10:50

Agreed bellini.

DitchyMcAbandonpants · 17/12/2018 11:02

Just to address the two most quoted reasons for not holding another referendum:

"the majority voted for leave"
"Another vote is undemocratic"

These are slightly disingenuous and do not address the whole picture. The slight majority of the votes counted were for leave.

51.9% is not an overwhelming majority in any case. For a general election on a term of 5 years - fine. But given that the default is maintaining the status quo, having a majority of a couple of percent for carrying the other 48.1% into this chaos isn't sufficient.

Not only that, the referendum was confusing - lots of the information provided for people to base their vote on was inaccurate, either purposely or inadvertently.

The majority of people polled who didn't vote cited that the information provided was conflicted or confusing and they felt disenfranchised by the experience. A tiny majority in this case does not mean that giving other people the chance to now make an informed decision is undemocratic.

The majority of the country did not vote for leave. 72.1% of the registered electorate voted. The "leave" vote only accounted for 37% of the total electorate. Yes, the other 28% should have made an effort to vote but if many of them felt they had no say, no correct information and were unlikely to make a difference, then the situation may have changed for them and they're more likely to take part in second referendum.

Not only that, other people with a big stake in Britain's place in Europe were unable to vote.

Over 700,000 British citizens who lived in the EU for more than 15 years were denied the vote, despite being able to participate in General Elections.

More than 3,000,000 EU Nationals who've worked in the UK for over 5 years were also denied the right to vote - despite paying tax and supporting our economy throughout that time, many of them with families and their entire livelihood being rooted in the UK.

They have a right to participate in an agreement that will impact their entire lives and split many families up dependent on the immigration agreements that are finally decided on.

Lastly, if you take the rest of the population into account - the people who have their entire lives rooted here but are unable to vote for various reasons - these people are having this immense decision made for them based on just 26.5% of the population's wishes.

Once again - staying in the EU with the current economy configured to work with it in this way - that's the default. Even if you take the tiny majority of the voting public into account, how is this more democratic than a second vote - most of the people in the country didn't vote for leaving the EU.

Even without all this, there's strong arguments to say the original referendum was undemocratic. There should have been a significant margin either way to make so eventful a decision and it should have been carried out after the first referendum left the country so divided.

MagnificentSevenHeaven · 17/12/2018 11:28

You know what? I honestly don't care any more.

If they go ahead, they go ahead & we just get on with it & in 5 years will wonder what all the fuss is about.

If they have another referendum, I'll vote & as per above, whatever happens will happen.

I just want them to do their bloody jobs and make a decision!!

One this is certain, I won't be voting for any of this shit shower of MPs again - it'd be a good opportunity for dynamic, enthusiastic people to step up to the mark & take ownership.

Moussemoose · 17/12/2018 18:05

@fieryginger "We have had the vote. It's democracy"

That is really not the case. There are many different forms of democracy and another referendum is entirely constitutional.

Please, explain exactly how a second referendum impacts upon U.K. democracy?

Weetabixandshreddies · 17/12/2018 19:02

This is just becoming farcical now. Listening to Theresa May's speech in parliament just shows what a joke this government is. She is just running down the clock hoping to force parliament's hand. It is about time that they actually showed some leadership and moved us forward from this mess.

greenpop21 · 17/12/2018 19:07

If you are talking about the incorrect figure on the bus, it was pointed out that was the gross amount paid to the EU before the vote.

greenpop21 · 17/12/2018 19:08

Tony Blair, yeah cos he was so right on WMD wasn't he?

greenpop21 · 17/12/2018 19:10

If there is another vote, I'll never vote again in any election.

Moussemoose · 17/12/2018 19:17

When you say 'vote' do you mean referendum or GE? Would you vote for your local councillors or mayor?

Have you always voted in the past?

Could you explain why democracy in action makes you ant to stop voting?

Moussemoose · 17/12/2018 19:18

Want not ant.

JacquesHammer · 17/12/2018 19:21

If there is another vote, I'll never vote again in any election

More fool you.

NonExistentFox · 17/12/2018 19:24

"It just needs implementing."

Lol, I just need to take the flour out of my cake.

bellinisurge · 17/12/2018 19:35

"If there is another vote, I'll never vote again in any election."
Elections aren't advisory- this referendum was.
Did you vote in every other election. Like the local council ones, the police commissioner ones, the EU ones? No? Then you don't take voting seriously either.

greenpop21 · 17/12/2018 19:38

I have always voted.

bellinisurge · 17/12/2018 19:40

Good for you @greenpop21 . Then you would know that this was an advisory referendum rather than a legally binding one. If it had been a legally binding one, some of those sneaky fraudulent bastards who laundered foreign money to pay for Leave.EU would be in jail.

Weetabixandshreddies · 17/12/2018 20:00

I can understand where greenpop21 is coming from. I've always been wary of politicians but this debacle has peaked my mistrust in them, from even allowing the ref in the first place, when it seems that they were woefully unaware of the difficulties ahead, to triggering article 50 so quickly when no plans were in place to the PM postponing the vote in the HoC - how can any member of the electorate ever trust them again?

Moussemoose · 17/12/2018 20:05

We get the politicians we deserve.

For years politics was seen as boring and dismissed. Voter apathy was a massive issue, politicians treated people with contempt because they did not engage.

If we, the public, engaged rigorously and held our policies to account we might not be in this mess.

It's always easy to blame others.

bellinisurge · 17/12/2018 20:05

@Weetabixandshreddies which is what extremist meatheads want you to say.

Moussemoose · 17/12/2018 20:09

We can't trust politicians - so vote for me.

So says the populist leader.

I'm not a politician I'm a business man. You can trust me.

All politicians are liars and charlatans.

Says the liar and the charlatan.