A United Ireland

[poppiesallykatie]

Not a goady thread or to stir, but how many are against it or for it? Obviously many in NI want to part of the Republic, many in NI want to part of Great Britain, how do the British people feel about it?

I don't understand why more people don't vote Alliance in the North.
Aren't they non sectarian ?

You all speak of the recession as though it’s the worst thing to have happened to our country. Believe me it wasn’t. I lived through the worst. The ‘safety net’ of NHS and benefits was well outweighed by the 30 years of conflict endured. I’d have happily spent money on healthcare to have avoided that. To be fair anything post GFA was better than before. My acceptance was in light of the alternative - and now the alternative is once again worse.

And I do “live here”. I am already Irish. I am an Irish citizen but a British subject. I resent the ‘otherness’ to which Irish people in the North are referred.

I know I won’t change the views of those of you whose concerns are only for the 26 county Irish. I am disappointed you think that way, I will never believe it is not a selfish view but I respect your right to reject us. if a vote in RoI proved we were not wanted then it would not be the place I thought it was in any case and I would not want it either.

To my ears what i hear is this: “you didn’t grow up in our family, you were adopted and your adoptive parents no longer really want you, well tough shit, we don’t want to share our nice home with you squabbling siblings and have to give up what we have...get lost”

I fully support a united Ireland. The United Kingdom is a disgrace, the sooner it disintegrates and the English are left to it the better.

I don't understand why more people don't vote Alliance in the North.
Aren't they non sectarian ?

Because Unionists believe them to be nationalists. And Nationalists believe them to be unionists.

And when push comes to shove, almost everyone comes down on one side of the fence or the other. Mind you, not every unionist is a flag waving, orange marching DUP supporter. A lot are very moderate non sectarian people who have weighed up all the options and think they are better off in the UK, usually due to the NHS etc.

As it happens, I have voted Alliance before , but it certainly felt like a waste of time.

HappyHugs it is 'other' it's a different country. It isn't Ireland it's NI. You can resent that all you like but its the truth.

And tbh attitudes like yours are one reason I don't think our two countries would mesh. Ireland has moved on, NI should too.

The Alliance are such a small party that it’s almost like lying for greens or similar in England. You can vote for them but the chances of it counting are slim.
They are getting better, and personally I have always voted Alliance becuase the Unionists are bigoted nutters, who have supported terrorism over the years, and Sinn Fein are the political wing of the IRA. Not a lot of choice...

I always thought it was a shame that the UUP fell by the wayside. They always seemed to be more open to negotiation than the DUP, and less extreme in their views. (I don't live there and am relying on the news coverage here so I'm prepared to be shot down here BTW.)

There would be scope for an NHS style system, reformed education etc

What now? The education system doesn't need reform, its pretty good.

And who's gonna pay for all this "reform"?

I resent the ‘otherness’ to which Irish people in the North are referred.

But you are another country. You have been for almost 100 years.

In that time the Republic has changed, grown and established its identity as a 26 county state. The north hasn't been a part of that. In the early days many mourned its absence, but the Republic has moved on significantly from this. And I believe most are broadly happy with the country that has taken shape.

You speak as if the ROI has an obligation to NI. I don't think people feel that. We share a landmass, but that in itself isn't a compelling argument.

As a British person who has travelled to NI a little, but in no way an expert, I would say that it is not for the British to say what we prefer. It is for the people of NI and the ROI say. I really don't think that a united Ireland will happen as, fingers crossed, the Good Friday Agreement has been very helpful and matters are much more stable now.
People -from both sides - told me that things are much better but that there are tensions under the surface and that wounds are not healed.

you didn’t grow up in our family, you were adopted and your adoptive parents no longer really want you, well tough shit, we don’t want to share our nice home with you squabbling siblings and have to give up what we have...get lost

I think it's more like best friends from primary school who meet many years later.

One side is expecting to pick up exactly where they left off, despite the fact that many years have passed and they're now totally different people.

With regards to N Ireland and identity, I do feel we are somewhere in the middle. We're not really like the rest of Ireland in a lot of ways. And yet in some ways we are much more like the rest of Ireland than we are like the rest of the UK. I think this is where some of the loyalist obsession with flags and parades etc comes from. A desperate need to have 'something' that identifies them, something unique, something that says 'this is our background'. And the more people point out that it is distasteful, the more they feel they need it, because 'no one understands'.

The United Kingdom was made and it can be unmade.

Can I ask why the ROI was not a bit more vocal about not wanting a united Ireland at the time of the troubles? Certainly that's not the impression I got from the Irish branch of my family, they always spoke about it as something that was inevitable in time.

Well when are you talking about? The 70s? The 80s? My grandmother would have hoped for it back then, after all she was born long before partition.

But that generation is in the ground a long long time now. That was a very different Ireland. It has little to do with the Ireland of today.

HappyHugs
I also support a UI. Tbh I wouldn't panic just yet. I suspect NI will come out of this on top, if it is as an independent with big investment from the UK to develope, an independent still in the EU or UI. Whatever happens the UK won't be able to just walk away without doing right by NI. Be it pressure from the Taoiseacht, from the EU or the thousands of patriotic Irish all over the world.
I can see why many Irish are against it, even as a child in the 80's I was told we couldn't afford the 6 counties.
Whatever happens with Brexit I think NI will prosper. The world is watching Brexit and fully aware of the GFA now.

Can I ask why the ROI was not a bit more vocal about not wanting a united Ireland at the time of the troubles?

Attitudes change and evolve.

In the 30 years since the height of the troubles the ROI has become much less catholic and much more liberal. These shifts have distanced them from NI nationalists.

EU membership has founded a modern European identity that is less dependent on old school Irish nationalism.

And the recession has played a big part. Not because it was such a terrible thing to live through, but because it's taught people lessons about self sufficiency and self reliance. Protecting the economy is a top priority for the Irish these days.

I think that opinion changed in the Republic as a result of and over the course of the Troubles. When the Troubles erupted, it was only 50 years since partition and that wound was more fresh - an all-Ireland entity was within living memory. Many politicians in the 60s and 70s had either fought in or were sons of men who had fought in the War of Independence and Civil War. People down south were horrified by the early communal violence and burnings in 1969, and reacted strongly to the arrival of British troops.

However, IRA violence was also viewed with horror in many quarters down south (notwithstanding emotional responses to the hunger strikes) especially by the time of Enniskillen. The courts, Gardaí, army and political parties down south were v hostile to the IRA who don’t forget claimed to be the legitimate government of Ireland.

In short, I think the Troubles themselves severely dented the appetite for reunification and the agonies of the peace process (and antics of the political parties) have further dented it.

Can I ask why the ROI was not a bit more vocal about not wanting a united Ireland at the time of the troubles?
I am wondering the same.
I am thinking the pps against NI and typing with no mercy towards pps from NI must be under 35.
We were brought up in the 80s with sadness towards our own in the North suffering through the troubles. We watched the news with heavy hearts.

@Twixies: And also OP @poppiesallykatie you didn't care to think about what us in ROI think of it all? Typical British ignorance being displayed there, assuming we'd be delighted to have them foisted upon us.

Back in your box Twixies. I am Irish, didn't think that needing pointing out. I have heard your opinion and other opinions from Irish people a million times over. Hence why I asked the question from the other point of view.

I just can't believe what I'm reading here.

I'm an Irish woman with an English husband living in Ireland. I lived in England for several years and of course visit my husband's family there regularly.

I did not realise how little British people know or understand about Northern Ireland and the pain of it's history.

Elspeth mid 70s to early 80s. They were big fans of the IRA too which I found hard to deal with as a child because I was terrified of being bombed (lots of bomb scares in our area - and on public transport of course).