A United Ireland

[poppiesallykatie]

Not a goady thread or to stir, but how many are against it or for it? Obviously many in NI want to part of the Republic, many in NI want to part of Great Britain, how do the British people feel about it?

@DGRossetti please don't go down the "well just move the Unionist community to England/Scotland " route. Not even as a joke.

I don’t think anyone would sleep walk into a United Ireland.
The Irish are better At referenda than the British. There would be a citizens assembly and lots of exploration of the implications and possibilities before any vote.

So because we don't want to take on the 6 counties just to make it easier for the English government, then we don't care? No that's not the case but we are not been forced into a unification to suit the circumstances. Maybe when the Dup are gone and there is a more logical political parties then things can move forward but that won't happen any time soon. I'm glad you are thrilled about Leo Varadakar has gone out on a limb, would he be so helpful if the EU were not involved, I wonder. I say ask the homeless, those on long waiting lists, those on trolleys and chairs in hospitals and of course the women from the cervical smear scandal. Leo hasn't gone out on a limb for them, in fact things have gotten worse since he has been in power, maybe the powers that be in the EU should take more in our domestic problems and then he might take an interest.

The Irish are better At referenda than the British.

Unfair !!!!!

There shouldn't be a need for the British to be "good at referenda". We elect (pay a fucking Kings Ransom for the privilege) representatives who are entrusted with governing in our best interests.

There should never be a need - ever - under the UK constitution for a referendum. And if it turns out there is, then it's a sign that the constitution or it's implementation are fucked, and effort would probably be better spent in fixing that. However that's a turkeys and Christmas situation at the moment.

Maybe a few more hung parliament will finally drill the message home to these thick fuckers that something is terribly wrong with UK "democracy" (which, by the way is not another way of saying "England says - UK does"). Moreover, if history teaches us anything, it's that ignoring broken democracies tends to lead to no democracy shortly before the revolution starts.

Probably the biggest single change to UK politics would be to scrap FPTP and look towards an electoral system which doesn't look like two fingers to two thirds of the country.

EmeraldShamrock I don't see how you can compare a merger of two countries and all of their political, economic and cultural differences the same as immigration.

Your attitude to Eastern Europeans, Polish, Romanian is similar to the attitude of the Brexiteers to the same people.

Polish people, in particular but generally all of the Eastern Europeans, who have moved to Ireland have enriched and integrated into Irish society and offer a lot culturally and economically. They work hard, often are skilled workers and contribute to our economy,

You hear of some Irish people, usually those who are quite uneducated, speaking of Polish workers going to Ireland and undercutting Irish workers, taking away employment, in particular in trades such as carpentry, electricians etc when in reality Irish people were being overcharged by many Irish trades people for years while there was no competition but the main reason that Polish do well is in fact because they are reliable and skilful at what they do as well as offering competitive prices!

The Irish and Northern Irish cultural differences are not just about religion but it has had an impact of course.

@dippledorus

The British HAVE to honour the GFA - it's a legally binding international treaty. It isn't optional.

I currently live in England and have been taken aback by how few people had any idea of the potential impact of Brexit on NI. It was my first thought on hearing the result but v v few people, I would even say no one who does not have some link to the island of Ireland had or have any clue.

@ErrolTheDragon

And the calls from here for the EU to 'give up or make concessions on the backstop , when all it is is a means to enforce what the UK has already signed up for in the GFA are an embarrassment.

And the calls from here for the EU to 'give up or make concessions on the backstop , when all it is is a means to enforce what the UK has already signed up for in the GFA are an embarrassment.

They aren't for the rest of the world (who pretty much have the English sussed, as we are finding out).

All that talk is for domestic consumption, so that "the nasty EU" can be blamed for Brexits failure to deliver gold-shitting unicorns, with the Republic of Ireland coming in for specially vitriol.

Moreover, if history teaches us anything, it's that ignoring broken democracies tends to lead to no democracy shortly before the revolution starts.

It started with Brexit, this is an ongoing small scale civil war.

DFRossetti, whether you need referenda or not, and in the absence of a written constitution you need whatever your MPs say you need, the British have had s number of referenda and they certainly made a mess of the Brexit one. This is in marked contrast to recent Irish referenda on issues like marriage equality and abortion.

Hard to refute

Incidentally, it's G Rossetti - for Gabriel ...

The Irish are better At referenda than the British. There would be a citizens assembly and lots of exploration of the implications and possibilities before any vote.

Never a truer word spoken.

As an Irish person living in Dublin, I do not want the north to join back with us. Mainly because I don't want more violence and for economic reasons. Having grown up with the north always being separate, it doesn't feel like a part of Ireland and also I think it has a different vibe, so I'm not sure how well it would integrate with the rest of Ireland.
Also yes to high healthcare costs here. I've spent about €300 getting the contraceptive implant!

Yes, interesting how all parties on this thread being clear that due to GFA citizens of NI and ROI would need clear majorities (in other words I think we are assuming large, maybe 80% and above) wanting unification with very clear understanding of what that would mean for economics, employment, social services, health care, education, foreign policy, trade etc.

While the UK are having to leave EU over an extremely slim majority (with many not voting) and no plan or understanding whatsoever of what the future holds.

That is what is means to be crap at referendum.

I suspect that actually a lot of English MPs, especially of the Reese-Mogg ilk, would happily let NI go.
I wouldn't be entirely surprised (and I've heard it been said by one brexiteer I know) if JRM's solution to the Irish hard border issue is to get the RoI back under British Rule. He'd probably quite like the Empire back!

Could you perhaps take Wales too?

GFA doesn’t specify any sort of weighted majority. Nor do Irish constitutional referendums (see the divorce ref). But hopefully even the Shinners are looking at the shitshow that is Brexit and recognising that a border poll of 50.01% is not the way to go for reunification.

I wouldn't be entirely surprised (and I've heard it been said by one brexiteer I know) if JRM's solution to the Irish hard border issue is to get the RoI back under British Rule. He'd probably quite like the Empire back!

I'm sure he would like that, but it wouldn't be something anyone, not even JRM, would seriously say in Parliament.

What is infuriating about all this is that the pro Remain campaigners did try to bring up this issue in the 2016 referendum and were shouted down as relying on 'Project Fear'.

Irish here from NI. I support a unified country but was reasonably happy with the status quo post the GFA.

What I do resent in this thread is the assumption of those from RoI who, in their rejection of unification, think only of themselves as Irish citizens, they give absolutely no thought to those of us in the North who live here as an ‘accident of birth’. I am the same as you. I am 100% Irish. I deserve the strong economy you speak of. You are stronger because you were not part of the 6 counties that suffered so much turmoil over the years, and now you want to punish us again for that by denying us our right to pull ourselves up? I’m sorry but I do think it’s a very selfish view. I understand that it cannot happen without consent on both sides and would agree that a sizeable majority in NI would also be preferable from a peace keeping perspective.

It is not for the current RoI to ‘afford’ us. It would become a ‘new’ Ireland, reflective of its entire population. There would be scope for an NHS style system, reformed education etc. Of course we should not be subsumed as a useless entity costing millions but contributing nothing - how insulting.

"Maybe I misninterepted but I am hearing a lot of - not our problem, nothing to do with us and not willing to put ourselves out to help."

That is exactly how I feel tbh

My taxes are high enough as it is and I don't feel like seeing them getting higher to sort out someone else's shit show.

Oh gosh. This is such an important question. I'm Scottish. I voted no in our referendum. I think I might change my mind if there was ever another one.
As for a United Ireland? Not my decision and never will be. Only the people living there on both sides of the border can decide that.

But many in roi don't want a 'new' Ireland with changes to our constitution, governance, health system, education system and everything else.

i am the same as you. I am 100% Irish. I deserve the strong economy you speak of.

Fine. Come and live in the Republic then. You have a right to that and you will be welcomed.

But you cannot blame people for not wanting to shoulder the responsibility of NI, which is still volatile, expensive and no longer culturally close to the ROI. Why would they want that?

The recession hit the ROI very hard. People here do not have the same safety nets as you enjoy in the UK. It's made us more self focused. We need to look after our own interests because no one else is going to.

Exactly kenandbarbie. I'm sorry HappyHugs but having been through the last recession and still feeling it in some ways taking on a country that despite what you contribute costs approx 10 billion euro a year to keep afloat is not something I would ever want. We have billions of debt as it is.

I don't understand why you think this is us wanting to punish you? It isn't our job to be your saviour, you need to take that up with your government. We didn't vote for Brexit, we aren't particularly happy with the chaos that the UKs decision is going to have on our economy, you could ask why are being punished? Why should we fix their mess, we are more than capable of making our own messes without having to deal with yours too.

You are more than welcome to move here and contribute to our economy but seriously wanting to make our country into a 'new' one in order to fix your woes that is selfish and self serving imo.

*Can I ask in what way the Catholic identity/culture in NI differs from the cultural identity of people of the ROI?

Several posters have said 'The culture of NI is very different to that of the ROI'. Do they mean the Protestant identity?*

I live in a mainly nationalist town in NI. It's a very nice place to live. I've lived in Dublin, Belfast, Liverpool and 2 other towns in NI before but this is my home town and I genuinely wouldn't want to live anywhere else.

I don't feel a lot of affinity with the typical Dub, but neither do I feel affinity with people from Belfast. Derry probably more so. Do people of Liverpool have the same culture as Londoners? Of course not.

I actually feel that a lot of the unionist insistence on culture is a kind of jealousy. Everything they have tied to their unionist identity is an affiliation to a union that doesn't really want them and a dismissal of Catholics as being the enemy. It has failed the youth in protestant housing estates. Catholic/nationalist culture has historically centred more on sport, craic, dancing, community. Education wise, catholic schools on the whole achieve much better grades etc.

Despite being the largest political party, I don't believe the vast majority of the unionist population agree with everything the DUP say. A lot do, don't get me wrong, but a lot of young protestants feel very differently and I think others are easily swayed the more we integrate. That's not to say there are plenty who aren't secret bigots.

Historically, there have been more protestants in higher paid jobs etc, but I don't believe for a second this is still the case. In respect of the no of public sector jobs, I'm sure this has reduced in recent years (the civil service anyway) although I'm not sure by what proportion. Every little helps I suppose.

There still is a protestant majority, but this is decreasing steadily and I wouldn't be surprised if sinn Fein come out as the largest party in the next assembly/general election. Particularly because of the DUPs insistence on selling us down the river.

There might be a lot of people in NI v opposed to a UI at the minute (the numbers of nationalists who would vote for it increased massively post the brexit vote) but depending on what happens in the coming years, this could change.

Yes you are Irish but you are governed by a British government and living in
in Northern Ireland which is part of Britain, that's why ye had the benefit of the nhs and cheaper education. This government sanctioned a vote and unfortunately the majority voted to leave without any real care for northern Ireland. I don't want a different new Ireland either to be honest. Like you said you were happy with the way things were with GFA but now over Brexit you are upset because the people in the rest of Ireland might have concerns about the impact a United Ireland would have on us.