To feel sad my Sen child is excluded from the nativity play?

[BringWine]

He is autistic, though high-functioning and in a mainstream school, and his teacher told me she thinks he won't manage the 2 x 6pm performances next week. To be fair, she is probably right. The later it gets, the more tired he gets, the more withdrawn and stimmy he gets, and she won't have another adult around to manage him. I get it. But it still hurts. We won't see him on stage in the nativity - all the other parents get to beam at their children and take video to send to grandma, and we don't. My child has been chucking on the sheep costume and rehearsing for weeks, its been fun, though he is oblivious that there is no pay off. I'm tipsy and thinky. Thanks for reading x

When I was a teacher, I always thought ahead of the performances and what was best for my SEN children. Costumes were considered carefully and teaching assistants were in attendance for rehearsals and all performances. Parents were thrilled to be asked if they would prefer to see their child perform in the dress rehearsal without the presssure of a large audience. It seemed to make the Christmas productions even more special for all concerned.

It's always worth kicking up a stink about inclusion and he might not care this time but next time he might so better to get the school into good habits now. Anyway it's not kicking up a stink it's asking them to do their job.
This ^^. It doesn't matter if he only manages one performance, or if he wanders off mid-way (he's a sheep, not Mary or Joseph) or even if he has a meltdown in the middle of the stage. It's about someone there saying 'this person has different needs, how can we make it possible for them to be included'. And I'm saying this as someone with autism who would love to be included in stuff at church but isn't because the vicar thinks about his needs wishes first!

For the people asking why his TA won't be there, it will be outside of their contracted hours. Most schools do not have funding to pay for extra hours.

OP how old is he?

Lots of posters are saying he's 4 years old or KS1 but I can't see that in your post. Sorry if I missed it.

There must be a job that you boy can do so that he is included. This is his class nativity and to leave one child out just isn't fair.

Inclusion is about including everybody, not including everybody except your son ffs.

My youngest, although not diagnosed clearly has needs. They struggle massively with crowds of people, noise, busyness. Basically everything a nativity is.

And this year they are the official lamplighter. They come on, switch the innkeeper's lamp on so the donkey knows where to come and them off again. Quick, easy and simple and they are still included.

In previous years they have been the stage curtain opener- opening the curtains so people leaving the stage can get off the stage.

I feel for you OP.

There's a child with high functioning autism in my DS's class. In every play and assembly they let him say the very first line then he doesn't need to sit around if he can't manage it. This works really well, could you suggest this? He can spend the rest of the performance with you.

I’m also a TA in a mainstream school, with SEN children, All our children are encouraged to have an active part in the play, wether that’s on or off the stage, it’s about knowing All the children and bringing out the best in all. It makes me so cross, that some schools dump children because they don’t fit into their boxes, when it really should be fitting the box to the individual, As a pp has said, keep a diary when your child hasn’t been included in an activity,and use for evidence for EHCP, etc.

If he were to be a sheep who wondered off after a minute or two as part of the play, it would only be an oblique reference to a parable in the Bible that Jesus told. So it would not look out of place.

If he wants to do it, and theyre just saying they cant have another adult to manage him. Doesnt he get funding? Cant his normal LSA come in? If the school cant afford the staff for evening performances, why have them, if it excludes some children.

I mean, im all for allowing children with SEN to miss out on certain school events if they find it stressful or traumatic, but if the child wants to actually do it, and its not dangerous to allow it, then I think its pretty shit if theyre saying he cant. Could he do one and not the other? Are they saying no, or just suggesting it?

My children were always able to take part in school plays, but they had an LSA with them if necessary and sat where they could easily get out if they needed a break, and theyd be taken to the classroom behind the stage

I totally agree with you RangeRider.

They need to make reasonable adjustments for his disability by law.
Its all very well talking about schools being underfunded - yes we all know that, but they dont get to save money by excluding disabled children. We often have no bloody choice but to mainstream our children. At least let them have some of the fun stuff that they want to do. Even if its not for the full performance. Even if there is a plan for you to be ready to take him out halfway through if he is getting too flappy. Even if its for one of the sessions not too.
If the school cant cope or cant provide support for your child to participate in school life WHERE HE WANTS TO, then maybe they cant meet his needs at all

You have had many suggestions for a compromise take some, if not all, of them to the teacher and insist that he is included in some way . Even the dress rehearsal will do provided that there is an audience otherwise he will miss the " performance" part of the experience.
I would insist . It is not " kicking up a stink " .

Depends whether you agree that he wouldn't handle it, and it sounds like you do. If he wouldn't, then inclusion for inclusion's sake wouldn't be the best thing for this individual child, and watching the dress rehearsal sound like a good compromise.

If he'd like to try and there's a reasonable chance he'd cope with at least one evening, could his dad come and be ready to take him home if it go too much for him? Or is the issue more that he'd get through the performance on adrenaline but the disruption to his routine would leave him distressed, overtired and unsettled for the rest of the week?

My Reception DD (NT) did a great job of getting through 2 evening performances but has been insanely tired and emotional for the rest of the week. Her friend, late summer-born and NT, just couldn't deal with being on stage in front of an audience and freaked and ran off stage crying at the performance to the older children. For her the kindest thing to do was not to make her do the evening performances.

If he would really hate it, it's natural to feel sad but right to let him miss it this time. If it's worth a go, there must be a way to try.

This thread makes me sad... if he wants to take part im sure theres some way they can find for him to take part, look at all the brilliant ideas in this thread.

However, maybe he actually doesnt want to take part? I feel a little bit torn on this, it does seem very late. I think it would be brilliant to reach some kind of way of getting him in the play - I really liked the ideas above and I hope you find some kind of solution. Can you speak to the teacher again about it? Your child is lucky to have you fighting for him.

what do you mean by "cant handle it"

If that means he might get noisy or flappy or want to leave before the play is over. Thats not not handling it. Those are things that can be adjusted for fairly easily

If it means he wont do it, will bolt, or will hurt himself or others, then id strongly suggest that you ask them to put in writing that he cant do it because they cannot meet his needs.
This could be an arrow in your belt if you need evidence later on down the line for a SEN placement.

Please dont worry about making a fuss. You are going to have to make a lot of fusses over the years

I’m a teacher in Ireland and fortunately all our performances are during the school day and every child is included. I can totally get why you are disappointed and we have had plenty of children with ASD in our various performances down through the years. If they get distressed or it gets too much for them they can just come off of the stage (we’d always discuss the situation with the parents beforehand to get their input/agree a suitable strategy). At the end of the day, it’s not about the performance- we’d hope parents aren’t expecting West End productions! Rather, it’s about giving all children the chance to participate at a level appropriate to them. Furthermore, being on stage can be daunting for any child, whether he/she has special needs or not.
I really hope you manage to come to some suitable arrangement with your child’s teacher.

That sounds the right way to go about things Procastination4 for sure. I can't understand why the teacher didn't talk to OP in order to see if a plan could be devised - it certainly sounds like they just don't want the hassle on this particular night for this event.

Actually the more I think about this the more angry it makes me. I realise I am projecting probably due to experiences with our (shit) previous school but it makes me so bloody angry they can promote this policy of so called inclusion but then just sideline our children or airbrush them out when the child’s differences don’t fit with their narrative. Please speak up OP and sort this before it ruins his whole school experience and destroys his self esteem as happened to my child x

I really think the teacher is trying to do her best here. What if she had said "your DS has to come to every performance"? Would you be saying great or would you be saying oh jeez it's not going to work out and it would be a completely different AIBU.

Look, yanbu to feel sad but it sounds like the teacher is coming from a place of genuine concern for your ds. As parents we sometimes underestimate how overwhelming it can be for any child to be suddenly faced with a huge audience of parents. Your child has additional needs so it might be even more difficult for him to manage.

As pp have said, chat to the teacher, suggest some alternatives. It sounds like she wants what's best for your ds and would be open to making it work for him.

Let us know how it goes!

Thanks all, I knew I could count on the brain-picking power of mumsnet! For some background, he is 5yrs old so year 1 and ks1, the school do one matinee performance (which I can't attend as I'm at work ) and 2 evening performances. One of which my husband will attend, another I will attend - his big brother will also be performing. We are in the process of applying for an ehcp, just trying to compile enough evidence from the medical side as well as school. I was surprised when she said she thought he wouldn't manage the evening performances, as I assumed this would have been factored in a long time ago - i.e. we know we have to cater for x y z children in that class so we'll make sure more staff are allocated, but I guess that's not the case.
I think its the bits backstage and before and after the performance she's worried about - his class will do their show, then go back to the classroom to watch a dvd while the older class (inc my older ds) do their show. I might suggest to her that my husband brings him literally to the stage, he goes up and does his thing, then sits back with my husband and watches the 2nd class show, so no going back to the classroom. If it works and he's happy, then I'll do the same following night.
Many of you have hit the nail on the head re inclusion - the school aren't great at catering to sen, which is why it made me pause and take stock. I will always fight for my son to be included, he is different, but he's happy by nature and well liked by his peers, who even at their young age, have taken him under their collective wing. He is a square peg trying to fit the narrow round hole that the current education system says he should, but his uniqueness is him. And he's perfect to me!

For the people asking why his TA won't be there, it will be outside of their contracted hours. Most schools do not have funding to pay for extra hours.

I don’t know a TA on the planet that wouldn’t be there, paid or not, unless they had childcare issues.

My now adult son has aspergers and was always included in school productions. I still proudly recall him being a reindeer in the school play and he tried really hard and did fine. I was a bag of nerves for him I must admit as I knew he would be mortified if he cocked up and everyone was watching . But he rose to it and these situations are important learning curves for all kids.
I would definitely insist on him being included with support from yourself one night and dh the next.

the school aren't great at catering to sen

If my experience is anything to go by this won’t improve :( it’s really hard especially when you have an older child flourishing in the school. We prioritised keeping our two in the same school when we should have moved the youngest at least 2 years ago, it was the eldest moving to high school that made us really look at moving as an option. Just something to bear in mind x

That’s an excellent idea to keep him sitting with you or Dh and just pop him on and off the stage . It means you can judge in the moment whether or not he is up to it. And if he doesn’t want to do it , there’s no one trying to make him and getting him upset.

It gives the wrong message to everyone, including him and his classmates, if he is excluded . Even for “ good intentions “.

I think it’s easy for teachers for get caught up in having the best possible standard of performance, when it’s not about that. The whole point of the Christmas story is that includes everyone.

I’m shocked that the teacher didn’t sit down with you to work on a solution rather than arbitrarily making a decision that he can’t take part. It is little things like this that still conspire to isolate children and adults with additional needs. It is very wrong.
OP I hope your little boy gets to perform with his friends.