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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

or are the school?

134 replies

mummy207 · 07/12/2018 17:20

Have had a phonecall this afternoon from DS school to say that he could be in very serious trouble and facing a day isolation as he said to a teacher to "add him on snapchat". The lady who phoned (pastoral support) said that he might be in isolation but I will be hearing from the head of year (still not happened?) and I need to have a serious chat with him about boundaries as this is totally unacceptable.

Now I get the chat about boundaries which I have done when DS came in, but he says he was just joking and it was stupid but there was nothing to it and the teacher didn't even react badly at the time she just laughed and said no! So I am very surprised school have rung me and said this, AIBU to say to the school that I think isolation would be unacceptable for this (small) mistake he has made? Or am I missing something and this is an isolation offence? Not sure if anyone who works in a school can advise whether this would be the usual punishment for this sort of thing!

OP posts:
caroloro · 08/12/2018 10:56

Whether what he did was inappropriate or not, is sensory deprivation in an isolation booth appropriate?

Surely a much more fitting consequence would be for someone to sit down with this lad, explain how what he did could be construed as harassment/inappropriate, and let him know how it felt for the teacher?

Hohocabbage · 08/12/2018 11:02

Agree with Piggy it’s not the norm at all to be getting detentions.

Hohocabbage · 08/12/2018 11:07

Sensory deprivation in a booth?? Have read back through all OP’s posts to see if she said anything like this and she didnt. Isolation means working away from their regular class.

Piggywaspushed · 08/12/2018 11:22

It's the Ban The Booths brigade scouring Mumsnet hoho.

nottakingthisanymore · 08/12/2018 11:39

piggy has it spot on.
You have had messages about poor behaviour before and he’s been in detention before. There are loads of kids who go through school without a single detention. I think this may be a case of him being on some sort of final warning.

tinytemper66 · 08/12/2018 11:42

When a pupil is in isolation the head of year, me being one of three, has him/her in the back of the room, whilst usually teaching another class. The most impact it has is on me, no one else. I would love an isolation room but we are such a small school it doesn't work as it was implemented before and it fell flat on its face as people, usually SLT, failed to turn up to man it!

MissMarplesKnitting · 08/12/2018 11:48

It's ok, Donald trump didn't mean it when he said he do anything, could just grab women by the p*ssy.

It's just 'banter'. Locker room talk?

No. No. No. It's not acceptable. Don't try to defend it, it's harassment that nobody should have to.put up with.

Deal with your son before he thinks like Donald Trump and has the right to just do and say what he wants to women.

Hohocabbage · 08/12/2018 12:33

I’d bloody love it if there was a sensory deprivation room, I’d be first in the queue of staff lined up to use it.

BackforGood · 08/12/2018 13:29

Ilovealexa I think it is you making great leaps about snapchat.
It is what my teens / early20s use to 'chat' to each other all day long. Nothing inappropriate or offensive. Just selfies and chat. It is how siblings / cousins / mates not in the same room, keep in touch. You must have a very weird friendship group if that is what you think snapchat is used for. I'm not saying no-one ever has, but I am saying that isn't your daily, run of the mill use.

ShalomJackie · 08/12/2018 13:52

Safeguarding requirea any incidents of inappropriate behaviour to be reported to a designated lead. The teacher has done this, possibly to protect herself from future accusations as is sensible.

Having had 3 boys go through education - youngest is yr 12 I had possibly one call and one message about detentions in all that time so it is not "the norm". You say she should have pulled him aside and spoke to him privately - absolutely not in these circumstances where there is any hint of sexually inappropriate behaviour eve if he thinks it was just banter.

Let the school issue their punishment and back them up by showing your son you do not agree with him misbehaving in any way - sexually or otherwise.

Graphista · 08/12/2018 14:57

Clearly you DON'T have a grip or this would never have happened.

I have an almost 18 yr old who is not at school now but who NEVER had a detention, only one of her close friends has ONCE (fragile after a bereavement and another pupil made a cruel comment and the friend swore & shouted at them) and it was a strict school! Not perfect but certainly never treated teachers with disrespect - partly because she KNEW I'd have come down on her like a ton of bricks if she had! One of her best friends in her close friendship group from primary is a boy, I know him and his family well. They too would have not simply "given him a flea in his ear" if he'd behaved like this!

Frankly if that's all you've done that's pathetic. Your son should absolutely be facing consequences at home as well as school for this, let alone you thinking the school or teacher has done anything remotely wrong.

"Also every time I do receive something from school I fully address it with him." If that's the same way as you've "addressed" this then no wonder he's learning nothing. He's not getting anything but a slightly stern chat, that's not enough.

You're doing that classic Aibu thing of

Op Aibu?

vast majority of respondents - yes!

Op - no I'm not! (Metaphorical stamping of feet & sticking fingers in ears going lalala)

Such an attitude and denial will not do your son any favours at all.

"It was just a joke" "banter innit" is the bullshit excuse offensive, thoughtless people come out with to excuse and minimise inappropriate actions/comments.

Snapchat is not solely used for sexual messaging but it IS used for that a lot by teens around this age. You were not there to witness the incident, at this stage you only have your sons word and a brief telephone message for what happened.

Myself and others have REPEATEDLY pointed out damn good reasons (which may even be school policy) why the teacher didn't take your son to one side and speak to him privately. That you don't agree is irrelevant, you aren't the teacher with a career and potentially personal safety on the line.

"I fully believe if this teacher HAD spoken to my son quietly after class he would have fully apologised"

1 it should NEVER have happened in the first place

2 at that age he is well old enough to have quickly realised he was wrong and apologised immediately.

3 even when you DID talk to him about the inappropriate nature of the incident he didn't accept that immediately instead he justified, minimised and denied!

"He is now just feeling confused about what is happening" there's a very simple quick way to make him less "confused" support the school, sanction him, make clear to him it was COMPLETELY unacceptable and inappropriate and you DO NOT expect him to behave this way ever again.

Have you even looked at his SM to check how he's behaving on there? Do you monitor that at all?

Piggywaspushed - he's not taking it seriously I suspect because his mother/parents aren't.

Op genuine question - do you think the type of men who become sexual harassers, assaulters, even rapists are created overnight? Of course not! It starts with them getting away with "minor" behaviour, with their offensive/inappropriate comments and actions going unchallenged.

Feefeetrixabelle · 08/12/2018 15:41

Can you remember when everything was ‘so gay’. I was teaching them and homework was so gay, lunch was gay etc. Society evolved and now it’s rarely used. ‘Banter’ is going the same way. It can’t survive the metoo revolution. So call it a joke or call it banter he shouldn’t be confused as to what he did wrong. You’ve told him and so have the school.

Confusedbeetle · 08/12/2018 15:47

The point is that the teacher must have reported this, and therefore she felt uncomfortable and therefore the boy must learn that this is not ok. Young boys often don't understand but must realise what they think of as banter is not received as such

Confusedbeetle · 08/12/2018 15:48

Snapchat is a bad idea

MaisyPops · 08/12/2018 16:05

However i personally believe it was a JOKE that got out of hand and I do know my son better than any of you!
Oh well. I guess female teachers should roll over and find your son's inappropriate comments flattering or hilarious. After All, mummy says it's a joke and we should stop being so uptight.
Also no matter what you say, I fully believe if this teacher HAD spoken to my son quietly after class he would have fully apologised and realised the nature of his actions.
He doesn't need to 'realise' the nature of his actions. He knew what his actions were when he did it. He was either trying to flirt or embarrass a member of staff and shows a total disregard for appropriate boundaries.
He is now just feeling confused about what is happening, as am i!
He isn't confused at all. He just knows if he plays innocent then mum will defend her little boy, minimise his actions because he is so unaware of his actions at 15 years old.

Would he have made that 'joke' to a 47 year old male member of staff? No. Because the fun and the banter in his and his mates' eyes is embarrassing or flirting with a younger female staff.

GrammarTeacher · 08/12/2018 16:39

Everything that Maisy just said.
And for hopefully the final time, the classroom isn't the place for banter.

bringbacksideburns · 08/12/2018 16:50

You are minimising.

Yet again an example of someone posting on Aibu and totally disregarding the majority of comments, many from actual teachers. So infuriating!

You have your answers. Back the school. But you won't will you?

Which will help reinforce any shit views your teenage son may possibly be already cultivating and tell him that women over react and are weird and don't need respect in a classroom.

Graphista · 08/12/2018 17:00

"Which will help reinforce any shit views your teenage son may possibly be already cultivating and tell him that women over react and are weird and don't need respect in a classroom."

Not just the classroom he'll take that attitude into the wider world!

LuaDipa · 08/12/2018 17:11

Not usually one to support schools without question but I think they are handling this exceptionally well. The boy said something inappropriate, quite possibly to try and undermine a female teacher - I very much doubt that he would have said the same thing to a male teacher. The school are teaching him that this type of behaviour is wrong and there are consequences. Good for them. If my ds had come home saying this I’d have asked him why he thought it was acceptable to say something so disrespectful to his teacher. She is an authority figure, not his mate and he should behave appropriately.

And “banter” generally indicates bullying or sexual harassment. I hate the word. It certainly shouldn’t be used as an excuse or justification for behaving badly.

MaisyPops · 08/12/2018 17:16

Not just the classroom he'll take that attitude into the wider world!
This.
Men who feel they are God's gift to women and can make whatever comments they like and use women to show off to their mates don't get born overnight. They are taught as they grow up that it's acceptable to behave that way and if a girl or woman objects then boy should be handled with kid gloves and have it quietly explained to him that he might just have been joking but some women and girls at uptight and might not like it.

I wonder if the OP had a daughter she'd be telling her daughter to smile sweetly at the nice boy who is making unwanted advances or trying to make her feel uncomfortable. Maybe her daughter should stop being an uptight snowflake and see the unwanted advances as a compliment. Maybe if her daughter felt offended by boys making jokes she'd tell her daughter to go somewhere else to socialise because the boys are just having banter.

mummy207 · 08/12/2018 18:28

I love all the shit i'm getting for defending my son at all! I DON'T agree with his actions and this thread was to simply see if you all agreed isolation was a suitable punishment, the replies have actually been MIXED, some say a vast overraction and then others are saying it's suitable, so I have decided I will take it and back the school.

However all this chat of my son being a sexual predator and compared to Donald Trump, of course I am going to defend that.

Also I do have two daughters, Maisy! See the assumptions we can make!

This is a teacher who my DS gets on very well with, I have chatted with him at length today about the whole thing, about how he has been unacceptable and put a lot of your points of view to him (without saying it's from MN, obviously). He has been very accepting and honest and is going to work hard in his isolation. He did also say that this is a teacher he gets on very well with, who is always friendly with him and has in past ruffled his hair etc he says, and so he thought she would just take it as a joke but realises that he's probably been looking at her in slightly the wrong way as I suggested he wouldn't be saying that to the headmaster to which he said "it's different" and I said well it shouldn't be! Now if i was to look into this more I could say her ruffling his hair etc isn't exactly professional, but I realise we are all human and she is probably just friendly with him and he's taken it too far!

OP posts:
GrammarTeacher · 08/12/2018 18:31

The hair ruffling you mention if true is beyond inappropriate!

MaisyPops · 08/12/2018 18:48

Also I do have two daughters, Maisy! See the assumptions we can make!
So answer my questions.
Would you tell for daughters to smile along nicely when the nice boy is making inappropriate comments? If they go out and a group of boys are pushing boundaries would you tell them go take the ring leader to one side and politely explain to him why she is a snowflake for not appreciating his comments?
Would you say your daughter was overreacting for having an issue with boys showing no regard for personal boundaries?
What would you want to happen if your daughter was on the receiving end of group 'banter' from boys at school?

MissMarplesKnitting · 08/12/2018 19:05

I didn't compare his actions to Trump.

I am comparing the minimisation of unacceptable behaviour as "banter".

hettie · 08/12/2018 19:12

"Banter" .....in my experience with teenage boys can include. male peers making rape jokes about your sister/mother.... objectifying girls/women... boasting/threatening what they'd like to do sexualy to said girls/women... inappropriate and unwanted 'flirting' (which is what went on here).
When we minimise and accept this behaviour under the guise of banter we are teaching both are boys and girls some really unhealthy messages. Step up to the plate op and make sure your son really understands why this is absolutely unacceptable and uncalled for...