or are the school?

[mummy207]

Have had a phonecall this afternoon from DS school to say that he could be in very serious trouble and facing a day isolation as he said to a teacher to "add him on snapchat". The lady who phoned (pastoral support) said that he might be in isolation but I will be hearing from the head of year (still not happened?) and I need to have a serious chat with him about boundaries as this is totally unacceptable.

Now I get the chat about boundaries which I have done when DS came in, but he says he was just joking and it was stupid but there was nothing to it and the teacher didn't even react badly at the time she just laughed and said no! So I am very surprised school have rung me and said this, AIBU to say to the school that I think isolation would be unacceptable for this (small) mistake he has made? Or am I missing something and this is an isolation offence? Not sure if anyone who works in a school can advise whether this would be the usual punishment for this sort of thing!

At the end of the day she's a teacher and he's the kid and he needs to know when to shut up.

Agreed. It might have started off as banter as you put it, but it's clear that at some point your son has crossed a line. The teacher has reported it and appropriate sanctions have followed.

There’s another thread on here congratulating an op who told a group men ‘bantering’ on the train to pack it in. Maybe if they’d been taught not to make weird inappropriate comments and dismiss them as banter she wouldn’t have had to put up with it. Society is cracking down on banter culture and it’s about time.

Its always difficult to call when you weren't there. 15 year old boys are full of adrenaline and raging hormones. It wouldn't be the first time that a pupil of that age has attempted a bit of flirtation with an attractive young teacher just to impress his mates. Probably didn't realize the implications and likely consequences. He's young and inexperienced.

However, as someone up thread said teachers shouldn't have to put up with this stuff in their place of work. I don't think she would have made a complaint unless a line has been crossed in some way. Naturally your son would minimize it to you...he's now in trouble and doesn't want hassle at home as well.

You sound like a responsible, caring parent op. You haven't just totally accepted his version of events without some thought as many parents do. Let him take his punishment and learn from the experience. A day in isolation...probably one lesson of a few subjects missed. Not the end of the world. Sends the right message about male/female boundaries for when he's in the work place later on and helps him in the long walk towards maturity.

That's spot on shiningstar2.
15 year olds can get it wrong. Usually all that is required is a subtle or not so subtle redirect to get them back on with their work (And to save staff from the awkwardness of 15 year old flirting which they think is subtle but really isn't. Or where the student is giving away a crush and they'd be mortified if they knew we'd picked up on it. Naturally we ignore and redirect).

More obvious comments and attempts to get a rise out of staff/attempts to flirt with staff/blur boundaries /make them feel uncomfortable/using staff as a tool to play to their mates and show off their new sense of masculinity or femininity need to be clamped down on.

I can think of male members of staff who've asked me if I'd just happen to sit in their room and mark when they've had particular female students in for detention because they've been students who've been flirting and pushing boundaries to get attention.
Safeguarding goes both ways and staff have to keep themselves safe.

Early on in my teaching career a student asked for my phone number! I was shocked and knew that if I didn’t tell someone I was in a very vulnerable position in terms of safeguarding. I sought the advice of a senior member of staff, the student got in A LOT of trouble! That was back in about 1999/2000. Glad to hear teachers are still protected in these situations.

I'm shocked by the comment saying that 15 yr old boys cannot be perverts- of course some of them can be! The overwhelming majority are not but being 15 doesn't mean that you can't be a pervert.

Young female teachers are very vulnerable. I was sexually assaulted by a 15 yr old male pupil in my first year of teaching. (Some female teachers have been raped by 15yr old boys)

OP I am not suggesting that your son was sexually inappropriate in any way but saying "add me on snap chat" is like asking for someone's number, it's crossing a boundary between pupil and teacher.

If he was with a group of his mates then the female teacher could have felt very vulnerable, and taking him to one side could have worsened the situation - I can imagine his mates going "she's adding him on snap chat! She fancies him!" Etc which would have been hugely embarrassing.

She had to report it to remain professional and to protect herself in case of rumours and to show your son what is and isn't acceptable.

I agree with ShiningStar2
It's always difficult to call when you weren't there. 15 year old boys are full of adrenaline and raging hormones. It wouldn't be the first time that a pupil of that age has attempted a bit of flirtation with an attractive young teacher just to impress his mates. Probably didn't realize the implications and likely consequences. He's young and inexperienced.

However, I also agree with PinkStripeyCat If a female teacher can't handle and is offended by a bit of banter from a boy of 15 she shouldn't be a teacher.

Following up a question from the teacher about what they were doing at the weekend with a joke about adding him on Snapchat is clearly an issue that a teacher could have just answered with a riased eyebrow. At most, a word at the time. She might want to log it with a colleague later, but, someone having a word about how inappropriate that would be, with the pupil later and all should have been over and done with. The teacher, and school, are making a mountain out of a molehill.
It wuld have been a mountain if the teacher had added him, but it clearly wasn't ever an actual 'thing', just a part of a friendly conversation where a teenage boy didn't quite judge the situation right.

This is the 3rd thread I have read tonight about a child been out in isolation all for very different reasons what has happened to classroom management.

Unless there is something else to this story then . No was the absolute clear response. If he continued then deal with that.

I think it’s also important to remember the often seedy nature of Snapchat in comparison to other SM.

Ridiculous overreaction by the teacher/school. Kids are always asking if I use social media and if they can add me. It's even part of the languages curriculum so of course we discuss our usage. Usually, it's a joke and obviously so. Naturally, I always say no. Sounds like your ds was joking, OP, I can't imagine why the teacher thought he was serious for a second.

Wow! You need to look at the secondary teachers thread.

He's getting into trouble so regularly that you have a completely blasé attitude to him getting detentions and your getting texts about his poor behaviour.

You've received a phone call from the school about inappropriate comments re a social media platform that's mainly used at this age to flirt.

And you think the SCHOOL is the problem?!

Get a grip of your son and his attitude and behaviour! Ffs!

Back the school up and impose sanctions at home too. If a son of mine behaved like this he'd be grounded for a week!

"TBH the only people I ever hear using the word “banter” are using it to minimise their twattish behaviour." Agreed. Every bloody time!

It isn't harsh if anything it doesn't go far enough in my opinion!

"A 15 year old boy whether flirting or not is not some sort of pervert" care to say that to anyone raped by a 15 year old? Teachers are regularly getting sexually harassed, assaulted up to and including rape

www.theguardian.com/uk/2005/may/04/ukcrime.pupilbehaviour

Schools are absolutely right to discourage inappropriate comments.

My dd almost 18 has been towering over me since she was 14, her male friends at 15 could easily have overpowered me I'd have had no chance!

"He said SHE was asking him and his mates / table what they were doing at weekend! They said what they were doing and then he "bantered" add me on snapchat and " and 15 yr old boys who are already in trouble never lie eh? Did he say what he said they were doing at the weekend? If so what was it?

"how? he wasn't suggesting anything sexual!" You weren't there how would you know?

"but think there are better ways to teach him a lesson than a day isolated." Such as?!

As for your suggestion she speak with him privately - that's potentially career ending! As a VOLUNTARY worker with teens we were trained to NEVER be alone with a child, they could claim you said or did anything.

Maybe the teacher being fine just saying no and then this punishment is because she's had to tell someone because 15 year old has asked her to add them on snapchat and she needs to cover her own back, she's not seen it as a big issue but felt management needed to know in case rumours started then management have over-reacted.

Day in isolation seems a bit much but I can see why a teacher might pass it up to someone else to protect themselves, because school social media policies are really strict and other kids have a habit of hearing bits and making up a story to fit.

Young hormonal man and his friends have a lot bit of banter with a young woman and he asks her to look at his snapchat, which makes her feel uncomfortable. Young woman later reports this to senior staff.

Young hormonal man tells his mother that it was all perfectly innocent and he never objectified her all all honest. Mother believes PFB.

Am I right in thinking that snapchat is the app young people use to send each other sexually explicit images but its 'safe' because they disappear after 10 seconds?

what has happened to classroom management.
Classroom management is about creating a climate for learning, not putting up with 15 year old boys trying to push professional boundaries in front of their mates. As other posters have said, taking the student to speak outaide after that would probably get a rise out their mates, jokes about the student being in with a chance, jokes about the member of staff fancying him etc. It leaves them open to have the boy lie about what was said and puts them in a vulnerable position.

I do not control my students. They choose to behave appropriately or inappropriately. I manage the environment, build positive professional relationships, sanction poor choices and praise good choices. But they choose how to conduct themselves.

Maybe if adults stopped telling 15 year old boys that women should lighten up and accept their 'banter' we would have fewer cases of men thinking they are entitled to do and say what they like to women as the women smile nicely and put up with it to avoid hurting male egos.

A group of (yr10) DS's friends got isolation from school b/c some of them (in a private social media group) said (I hear, mild) slagging off things about one of the teachers. Anyone who was a member of the group got isolation, even if they didn't contribute or comment. Somebody screenshot & sent image to HT who hit the roof. HT couldn't get into the group but coerced names of some members out of the group owner.

I don't think those lads will ever discuss teachers again on SM. Not even to say Nice things! SM feels like the biggest hot potato.

I’m not normally one to leap to the defence of a school in all circumstances...but on this one...

I’ve got a few friends who teach secondary school. We are in our 30s now so it’s less of an issue (friends are experienced in how to deal with it and targeted less now married with children) but while in their twenties they were regularly targeted by teenage boys displaying predatory sexual behaviour in school. This kind of ‘banter’ or flirting is part of it. It’s intimidating, particularly if done as a group. For more than one friend it has resulted in either an actual or attempted physical assault.

It is totally inappropriate and your son does need to learn some respect and boundaries. And I don’t blame the teacher for a single second for not taking him outside on his own to have a word. If someone was behaving inappropriately toward you in a bar would you take them aside on their own to ask them to desist? Or would that encourage them? They have already demonstrated they aren’t acting within normal social boundaries (ie unwanted attention).

If the teacher was offended then she is a total snowflake

I doubt she was offended. I’m not offended when men make inappropriate, unwanted sexual advances toward me. I’m fucking angry about it.

There is a whole new section in the latest update of school safeguarding information. It’s talking about peer to peer abuse but applies in this situation too I would say. Note the last paragraph. We have to stop teaching boys the wrong way to behave by dismissing inappropriate behaviour as ‘banter’. The trouble is it’s so ingrained in us as a society it can be really hard to see the tiny behaviours and messages we are giving to boys (and girls) all the time about societally acceptable behaviour.

Peer-on-peer abuse

Your child protection policy should cover peer-on-peer abuse. It should include information on:

Procedures to minimise the risk of peer-on-peer abuse
Recording, investigating and dealing with allegations of such abuse
The different forms peer abuse can take, such as sexting and physical abuse
Supporting the victims and perpetrators of peer abuse, and any other children affected by it
The gendered nature of peer on peer abuse (i.e. that it is more likely that girls will be victims and boys perpetrators), but explaining that all peer on peer abuse is unacceptable and will be taken seriously
It should make clear that peer abuse will never be tolerated or passed off as 'banter', 'just having a laugh' or 'part of growing up'.

If the school don't normally over react I would give the benefit of the doubt.

Probably showing off to peers by being flirtatious/cocky rather than actually trying to come on to teacher but not appropriate either way.

Teacher deals with it however she likes. Next time she may have a sharp response ready but this time she didn't and dealt with it after as it made her uncomfortable enough not to leave it there.

The way teenage boys treated young teachers at my school (20 years ago) was awful looking back it's good teacher has mgt support and best your son learns this lesson quickly so isolation seems appropriate.

I'm a teacher in a secondary school and am fed up to the back teeth with beig treated like shit by boys because I am a female. Thsi has got worse in teaching, not better. Not all of it is sexual harrasment or bullying but lots of it is gender based, in that the boys behave differently around male staff. And I am a teacher of many years standing now ancient witha reputation for high behaviour standards. Younger teachers are increasingly accepting of being slightly to majorly harrased every time they step into their workplace and so the issues are often ignored or minimised.

My school does very very little to address the rising culture of 'banter' and intimidation.

In short, I wish I worked at your DS's school.

Hi all thanks for replies

@ilovealexa @walkingdeadfangirl for those suggesting snapchat is just used for sexting and sexual images - i don't think you have kids? they use snapchat for texting and almost anything, stories that all theri friends can see etc. He is constantly on it to his male mates and pretty sure not sexting them! So I think jumping to conclusions to say he was suggesting it for sexting her..

@graphista I do have a grip on my son and his behaviour thanks. As i said i have very rarely had contact from the school except a few detention texts and very occasional behaviour things. Maybe your kids (if you have them) are perfect and you have never had any contact from schools they go to, but I don't think a random few texts about detentions are that bad. Also every time I do receive something from school I fully address it with him.

I am not minimising his actions here and I realise the joke was inappropriate. However i personally believe it was a JOKE that got out of hand and I do know my son better than any of you! Also no matter what you say, I fully believe if this teacher HAD spoken to my son quietly after class he would have fully apologised and realised the nature of his actions. He is now just feeling confused about what is happening, as am i!

The point is you are not a teacher and therefore have no idea how this kind of situation pans out in classrooms. Had the female teacher taken your DS aside and sppoken to him - either before or just after - the lesson- this probably would have escalated the 'banter' from his peers.

All of us who are teachers can exactly visualise this situation and what the intent (misplaced) of your DS was. This kind of 'flirting' does not suggest he fancies her : rather , it is generally aimed at embarrassing, and making a fool of, a female teacher: that isn't nice.

Someone, however, should have spoken to him . Presumably , the HOY has?

And , his response , that things would be 'fucking weird' (regardless of what I think of the language) does suggest that he doesn't take the whole thing seriously at all, imo.

The teacher will have written a report on his behaviour, no doubt, and someone senior will have made a decision.

fwiw, the vast vast majority of students in schools don't receive detentions and most parents never receive emails or phone calls about their DCs' behaviour. I do think there may be a context here that your DS is 'playing to the crowd'. I am both a teacher , and a parent of teenage boys, one perfect, one less so. I'd be livid if either of them showed sign of sexual harrassment, even in 'jest' (which is usually is).

But he shouldn't be joking and bantering with a teacher. An enquiry about what they are up to at the weekend is normal behaviour (I certainly ask my form) that does not constitute an invitation to 'banter'. I am not their friend or their peer.
And, in my experience anyway, 'banter' is usually used by students to justify to themselves bullying behaviour.
I fail to see how on Earth this could be interpreted as a 'joke'.
And yes, teenage boys do use snap chat to send all manner of filth to each other.

Lots of teachers have been asked if they can be added on Facebook.

I just say not appropriate and then get back to the lesson or change the subject if its in form time.If they still tried to push the conversion then that would be dealt with. So I think the reaction is extreme to say the least.
I hear and see so much worse on a daily basis.

If kids were put into ‘ iso’ for this we would need to open the hall.

Amazing assumption to make based on one comment.
I do happen to have kids although way too young for this nonsense and also happen to know exactly what snapchat was originally used for and still often is. The school will know this too that to ask her to add him on Snapchat is different to say Facebook or something else. You’re naive if you don’t see that.