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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think you can't be a "nice guy" if you use prostitutes for sex?

452 replies

NotMyOriginalName1 · 06/12/2018 14:22

Or can you?

In short, somebody I've known for a number of years openly admits to visiting sex workers and has deluded himself into believing he's one of the good guys and isn't exploitative. He spouts bullshit about having respect for the women he sees and thinks they adore his charming company.

I've lost what respect I have for him.

Unbeknownst to him I have personal experience of these situations, I was a sex worker in my late teens and what lead me there was an abusive relationship. I never felt respected by one single 'customer' in fact it was the 'good guys' who made my skin crawl the most.

Aibu to say he's an exploitative c-u-next-tuesday or am I jaded as a result my own trauma?

OP posts:
RatRolyPoly · 06/12/2018 16:35

I don't entirely disagree with you Lass.

NottonightJosepheen · 06/12/2018 16:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BoglingToAswad · 06/12/2018 16:36

You don't have to had personal experience of the prostitute's experience to be able to empathize and to realise how desperate their situation is.

No, but assuming all prostitutes are unwilling victims is incorrect. You are conflating coercion and control with prostitution in general.

LassWiADelicateAir · 06/12/2018 16:36

I did not get the impression thatRatRolyPolythought she was 'better' than prostitutes at all, but rather than the men paying to use women's bodies were (even) worse than the men paying to look at them

Yes, exactly - that and the antipathy it generated for the punters

AssassinatedBeauty · 06/12/2018 16:38

"No, but assuming all prostitutes are unwilling victims is incorrect."

I don't think anyone is assuming that. The point is that punters cannot tell either way, yet continue anyway. Quibbling over the exact percentage is irrelevant.

BollockingBaubles · 06/12/2018 16:38

A man who buys sexual consent isn't a nice man.

The man buying sexual consent has no way of knowing if she is there through free choice or not. It's the purchasing sexual consent that makes them arseholes.

Same type of man will say it's just a job and he respects them blah blah will absolutely not his wife or daughter being purchased by men to use.

When someone tells me they are a nice guy they usually are not. And I've notice the type of man who goes round telling women he's a nice guy often feels that being nice should have him rewarded with female attention. The nicest men I know have never ever had to tell me they are nice, if anyone is truly being nice then they don't require thanks in the form of a pat on the back, adoration or whatever else.

Even if the sex worker truly made a free choice to be there, and isn't desperate for the mo eh or being coerced and trafficked, HE doesn't know that, and the amount of men on The Invisible Punter who seem to think the woman they are using is dazzled by their personality and actually enjoys his custom and has the biggest orgasm she has ever had with him make me cringe.

I suppose that's what they have to tell themselves to make them feel easier that they've purchased sexual consent when actual nice men who do respect women don't purchase consent.

ClaryFray · 06/12/2018 16:38

Meh, not all sex workers are trafficked, nor there against there will. If a guy wants to see a prostitute the so be it

Mumminmum · 06/12/2018 16:38

@Trulybadlydeeply You are so right. All research shows that men who use prostitutes don't like women and don't see them as equals. That is why the skinny, drug adled prostitutes often earns more than the more well kept ones. The "customers" like that the prostitutes look miserable and suffering.

@BoglingToAswad Sorry, but you are wrong. All research shows that the majority of sex workers are controlled and have been abused previous to them starting their career as sex workers. I cannot count on two hands the number of articles I have read in which sex workers have claimed that they just like sex and blah blah only to see another article years later in which they admit that it wasn't exactly true. They were just so used to lying to the customers and themselves, that they couldn't admit to being controlled and previous abuse victims.

On another note one of DH's friends is married to a woman who used to go on sex vacations to Africa. TWO of her girlfriends came back pregnant and kept the child. Pregnant with a man they had paid for sex! The friend's wife is and has always been infertile, but it is safe to assume that she had unprotected sex with the sex workers as well. I just cannot warm up to her. My DHs friend is an idiot for sharing this information with us. (not that there is anything new about him being an idiot.)

YeOldeTrout · 06/12/2018 16:39

It came out a few yrs ago that one of my male relatives had a long history of visiting prossies. On back of that revelation, his marriage imploded.

Relative was an evangelical fundie Christian, whose main employment was in the church. So he lost his job, too.

Relative does not make excuses. He fully agrees he did wrong & says he hasn't seen a prossie since the big Reveal. Him agreeing it was wrong is a key thing for me. We all screw up. Better quality people admit it was a screw up. I remain on friendly terms with Relative. But there's some rancor in family, some think he should be much more contrite about the pain he caused, wrongs he did.

I don't know what I'd do about someone who admitted to a regular prossie habit & tried to justify it.

LassWiADelicateAir · 06/12/2018 16:42

No, but assuming all prostitutes are unwilling victims is incorrect. You are conflating coercion and control with prostitution in general

I don't actually care whether there are happy
hookers out there. Prostitution damages society as a whole. It perpetuates the idea men need sex and must have sex. It is degrading and dehumanising.

Rudolphie · 06/12/2018 16:42

@ratroly I never judge I just expect others not to

@hestia more sex workers make sure they use condoms, they go for very regular tests and surprisingly they are not all offering anal.

BoglingToAswad · 06/12/2018 16:44

By perpetuating the 'happy hoooker' idea, when research and anecdotal evidence suggests it is highly unusual, I do think you are perpetuating dangerous and false narratives.

It is not highly unusual. Again, most research on sex workers is biased by the fact that is collected by resources for vulnerable sex workers.

I have never said that coercion is not a problem, obviously it is and I believe decriminalisation would take the industry out of the hands of criminals.

By pointing out that all sex workers are not victims, however, I am not promoting a false narrative.

Rudolphie · 06/12/2018 16:44

Does anyone consider that the people that have left the industry happy and healthy don’t want to publicise it as you are all so judgemental?

HestiaParthenos · 06/12/2018 16:47

Do I have to say it again? I don't care about happy hookers.

I do not want to live in a society where a man thinks he is entitled to my body after buying me a drink.

I do not want to live in a society where men think women are for sale.

If the happy hookers are so happy and don't need the money, then surely, they can do something else instead of prostituting themselves?

53rdWay · 06/12/2018 16:47

Rudolphie you seem very set on making this an issue of people ‘judging’ the women in prostitution. It seems quite clear to me that people aren’t doing that here, that they are instead judging the men who pay.

Adversecamber22 · 06/12/2018 16:48

He is actual scum nd if anyone said they used women like this I would cut game out if my life. Friend or relative I wouldn’t care. The term incel springs to mind.

RatRolyPoly · 06/12/2018 16:48

I'm all up for personal liberties; you can pay someone to do whatever you want them to to your body. Paint it, pin it, suspend it from hooks; knock yourself out.

But I don't think you should be able to pay someone to do whatever you want to their body.

I think bodily autonomy means not only being able to choose to do whatever you like with your body, it also means doing things with your own body only because you choose it. Not because you've been paid.

NotUmbongoUnchained · 06/12/2018 16:49

I did sex work when I was younger and only ever came across 2 genuinely nice guys.

RatRolyPoly · 06/12/2018 16:52

Not because you've been paid.

I wrote that in haste, that's not what I mean. You actually can do things with your own body because you've been paid IMO. What mean is you shouldn't be able to buy doing something to someone else's body. The "seller" can do what they like with their body and get money for it if they want, but the "buyer" shouldn't be able to purchase the choice over what happens to someone else's body.

I'm not expressing myself very well. It's been a long day.

LassWiADelicateAir · 06/12/2018 16:54

Rudolphieyou seem very set on making this an issue of people ‘judging’ the women in prostitution. It seems quite clear to me that people aren’t doing that here, that they are instead judging the men who pay

Yes no one has judged the women involved. The closest might be my comment that the "sex industry " generates a mutual antipathy between "customers " and suppliers. It was certainly not a judgement on any of the suppliers and certainly not of RatRolyPoly- a poster I have a lot of time for.

HestiaParthenos · 06/12/2018 16:55

I did sex work when I was younger and only ever came across 2 genuinely nice guys.

If they were punters, I would like to know in which way they were genuinely nice.
Can't really imagine it, tbh.

Rudolphie · 06/12/2018 16:55

A lot of sex workers are highly educated and not controlled by anyone else (btw the judgements you make are wrong on girls being forced in.... yes men but often it’s femsles - even mothers when you go to the vulnerable people pushed into that world). I am talking about grown ups choosing this as their way of life.

A kiss with Kate Moss was auctioned off for charity a few years ago.... is that guy a predator as well??

NotUmbongoUnchained · 06/12/2018 16:57

If they were punters, I would like to know in which way they were genuinely nice.
Can't really imagine it, tbh.

You don’t sound particularly open to being understanding.

MephistophelesApprentice · 06/12/2018 16:57

I have no problem with the legality of prostitution, but I do think that any man who employs one is weak, lazy and contemptible.

HestiaParthenos · 06/12/2018 16:58

A kiss with Kate Moss was auctioned off for charity a few years ago.... is that guy a predator as well?

Yes?
I certainly wouldn't pay someone to kiss me. Either they want to kiss me, or they don't.