To think you can't be a "nice guy" if you use prostitutes for sex?

[NotMyOriginalName1]

Or can you?

In short, somebody I've known for a number of years openly admits to visiting sex workers and has deluded himself into believing he's one of the good guys and isn't exploitative. He spouts bullshit about having respect for the women he sees and thinks they adore his charming company.

I've lost what respect I have for him.

Unbeknownst to him I have personal experience of these situations, I was a sex worker in my late teens and what lead me there was an abusive relationship. I never felt respected by one single 'customer' in fact it was the 'good guys' who made my skin crawl the most.

Aibu to say he's an exploitative c-u-next-tuesday or am I jaded as a result my own trauma?

It is this sort of patronising, rude statement which prevents this issue from being discussed sensibly.

Might help if you know the difference between 'question' and 'statement'.

I'm genuinely curious as to how one person happens to know so many barristers and other high flying types who offer their orifices to men for cash as a nixer. Not denying they exist - all sorts of people exist - but in my 40 years plus of mixing with highly educated women in the several different countries I've lived in, I've yet to come across one. But rudolph just so happens to be personally acquainted with several such women? Sure he does.

Female what? Do you mean female humans (aka women)?

Sorry apparently calling myself a female is wrong..... person with a vagina??? Is that better??? Ffs

It's vulva, btw.

Rudolphie can you say more about why you think decriminalisation is a better approach than the Nordic model? And indeed, what it is that you mean by decriminalisation?

I never used the word barrister... I said I knew people I firms like law firms who hsd done this. If you are too dumb to think of other fields similar that people might be working their way up in.

And perhaps I know this because they tell me because I am not so judgemental. You guys are like hawks on a carcass

Firms like law firms, but not law firms?

I do not know enough about either model @assassinatedbeauty tbh. I will read up. Thank you for the links. My main point was I don’t think anyone can be judged as good or bad for either being a prostitute or sleeping with one.

But Rudolphie this is about people buying the services of prostitutes, and whether they/the man OP knows can be judged as good or bad. It is not about whether the prostitutes themselves can be judged as good or bad.

I don't know why you are so determined to view it through the lens of people judging prostitutes here, as if everyone thinks the buyer is morally equivalent to the seller.

Myself and my vulva (not sure why it’s not my vagina) are leaving you all to bitch away.

op please do what your gut tells you to, if it feels wrong now it probably is xx

I'd just like to point out that disagreeing with someone isn't being judgemental.

And also that judging someone for doing something that you feel is wrong and detrimental to society isn't a bad thing. I judge men who use women for sex, because I believe it to be damaging. I don't care what their back story is, it doesn't alter what they are doing.

The Nordic model, whilst good on the surface, simply makes prostitution less visible, and drives it further into the hands of criminals.

Any proof for that?

Amnesty Interationals research is very compelling and worth a read, a very quick Google should find it. It also gives a very good explanation of the differences between legalisation and decriminalisation.

Decriminalisation, if you mean the same thing others mean by it, is preferable to legalisation, but when I look at how much prostitution is in the hands of assholes in Germany, I don't think it can be much worse in Sweden.

I agree, but in decriminalisation (as opposed to legalisation, which is what happened in Germany) has been proven to work in New Zealand.

Can I just say. You can't decriminalise prostitution, it's already legal.

I don't know why you are so determined to view it through the lens of people judging prostitutes here

Possibly because in patriarchy, everything is always a woman's fault.

It takes some time to get rid of that mindset and/or understand that some people don't have that mindset.

I never used the word barrister... I said I knew people I firms like law firms who hsd done this. If you are too dumb to think of other fields similar that people might be working their way up in.

Working their way up.... by offering access to their vaginas for cash?

And when you say 'people' do you actually mean 'females' as you would put it? Or are some of your high-flying male buddies also sexing strangers by night?

And perhaps I know this because they tell me because I am not so judgemental.

So what you are saying is that there's actually a large cohort of 'highly educated' women moonlighting as 'escorts', but they only reveal themselves to those who they know will approve?

You might want to look further into Amnesty International's attitudes to women and sex 'work' before pushing their research as in anyway objective and worthwhile.

Old one, but worth a check-in: www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2015/jul/28/amnesty-international-prostitution-sex-work-human-trafficking

www.independent.co.uk/voices/prostitution-sex-trade-punters-pimps-womens-rights-exploited-hiv-condom-rule-a7913121.html

Presumably the decriminalisation would make it legal for brothels to exist and pimps to make money?

Can I just say. You can't decriminalise prostitution, it's already legal.

There's a difference between decriminalisation and legalisation, tho.

As I have had it explained to me, it being legal means that all sorts of laws apply to prostituted women, and it is treated like a job.

Decriminalising it would mean that prostituted women aren't punished, but also don't have to pay taxes and get registered everywhere and stuff.

(Making prostituted women pay taxes keeps them in prostitution because once the tax debt is there ... well, it is ... unlikely you can pay off that kind of money by working a minimum wage job.
And of course it means that the state profits from the prostitution, which is so wrong on so many levels.)

Pretending it is a job that you can put on your CV and all, is obviously fucking stupid.

Just decriminalising it may not have the disastrous consequences that legalisation has, but I remain sceptical of it.

Of course, the question is what do you define as "it is working"

To me, it works when prostitution is reduced and the social acceptability of men buying women's bodies is reduced.

Others may think that it works if fewer prostituted women end up in prison.

YABU. If say a bloke is how do put this sexually unattractive, and has trouble pulling. What's he supposed to do live a sexless life, or Some blokes just want the shags with out the emotions. As do some women.
Prostitution is the oldest profession in the world. You not liking it isn't going to make it go away.

Can I just say. You can't decriminalise prostitution, it's already legal.

Decriminalisation and legalisation of sex work are not the same thing. Yes, prostitution is legal in the UK, but there are laws which prevent sex workers working together. Again, I would suggest you have a look at Amnesty's site (or just Google it).

This is an article by Julie Bindel on what legalising prostitution in Switzerland has done to women.

www.truthdig.com/articles/a-brutal-normality-switzerlands-sex-market/

YABU. If say a bloke is how do put this sexually unattractive, and has trouble pulling. What's he supposed to do live a sexless life

Yes.

Sex isn't a human right.

Some blokes just want the shags with out the emotions. As do some women.

That's what Tinder is for.

Prostitution is the oldest profession in the world. You not liking it isn't going to make it go away.

Slavery - not unrelated to prostitution - is also as old as humanity. Does that mean slave traders are fine individuals too?

BoglingToAswad what aspects of decriminalisation do you think are particularly necessary in the Uk and will make the most difference to the safety of women who sell sex?

Slavery - not unrelated to prostitution - is also as old as humanity. Does that mean slave traders are fine individuals too?

This is so true. And I don't think too many punters, who are really just looking for an 'emotionless shag' are likely to be all that worried as to whether the woman is actually freely consenting. Because a lot of them are not doing that, because they're being controlled by criminal gangs.