Would you send your child to special school in my circumstances?

[fragglerock1981]

My daughter aged 10 has been offered a place at a special school for moderate/complex difficulties and/or social/emotional issues. She has struggled to access the school curriculum ever since she was 5 and is about 2 years behind. She is in mainstream and is increasingly becoming more anxious about going to school because she thinks she is stupid. She has a diagnosis of Dyspraxia and they say she has complex learning difficulties. She has a lovely set of friends that she has had since reception. The school say that they are very protective of her and dd relies on them to complete her work. These friends are lovely but they are already starting to develop interests dd is not interested in and are spending more time away from her at playtime.

I'm just finding it so hard. If you saw dd you would not know she had any difficulties. She is articulate but will only talk about what she wants to talk about. She is so beautiful, I just cannot comprehend that she is not considered all this. The school have said she will not cope at all if she experiences any bullying. A couple of girls made fun of her on sports day, apologised after yet dd still refuses to kick a ball 6 months later.

DD wants to go to our local excellent secondary where all her friends are going. Do I give her a chance? It would destroy her of she was bullied. The special school say they think she would do well there but she will be one of the more able pupils. I'm sorry if my post offends anyone. I think I have been in denial for many years. I honestly wasn't expecting the special school to say yes.

It sounds like you've been broadsided by the offer the special school. I think first and foremost, you need to have a talk with your daughter about her diagnosis of Dsypraxia.

Like so many PP have said, you need to visit the school with your DD. I think how the peer groups are managed is incredibly important - some school's are much better than others at this, special school or not. DS1 is in an ASD base at a mainstream secondary. He can be quite scathing of his fellow ASD peers, though keeps his thoughts to himself at school (and yes we do absolutely talk to him about his views, and challenge his thinking). it needs careful managing particularly when you have pupils with social skills difficulties who are approaching or in the teenage years.

They have a SS just around the corner, and some of the more academically able pupils do come up to DS1's mainstream. And DS1 has been to the SS a few times to meet their therapy dog.

Does the excellent mainstream set pupils? You may find DD isn't timetabled to be with her primary school friends and the friendships will start to drift.

Support in our local mainstream is groups of pupils targetted for intervention being taken out of lessons by a TA. They don't really have any LSAs in class. They do have a learning support area which children with SEN can access. When I was enquiring for my DS1, there was nothing for social skills, no adjustments for PE. Put simply, DS1 wouldn't have coped there, despite being academically average.

I think the transition for the child is generally easier from MS to SS than the other way around. But it is hard to get a SS place and there's no guarantee that if you try MS and it doesn't work, that you'll be able to get a place at another SS easily.

Good luck and hope it all works out well.

@Vampiratequeen you don't need to wait till 6 to get a diagnosis of dyspraxia - my daughter started the diagnostic process aged 4 and was officially diagnosed when she was 5 1/4 - it's glaringly bloody obvious that she's a) officially completely gorgeous and giggly and b) has DCD

My DS attends a SS and he is thriving. He has severe ASD, non-verbal. You really need to see the school - as soon as my DH and I visited this one we knew he would be happy. At his school the DC aren't all bundled in together: MH issues, ASD, etc … they are put into classes depending on their ability, not their age. Also, they are not taught in the traditional way, ie teacher at front, teaching them all as a group: they are given individual work and targets. So no-one feels left behind or that they are working at a pace too slow for their ability. As things progress they may move to another class the following year, but as the children do mix (again, depending on issue) they usually already know each other, so transitioning isn't usually a problem. The children with MH issues are taught in a different area and all staff are fully trained.

As for how to handle the news, with DS1 it was a bit different as he was aware of his ASD dx but he didn't like to talk about it. So we had a recap on ASD and what it meant for him. He was struggling in Yr6 and we explained the expectations in our local mainstream would be greater than at primary, and they weren't able to offer the kind of support he needed. The ASD base was for pupils like him and he could be supported without having someone glued to him (he hates 1:1). The staff would be understanding of his social issues and would find ways to help him develop them and he'd always have a safe space to return to (the base which has much nicer toilets than anywhere else in school!).

He had a few transitions visits once we'd got the placement sorted. He's now in Yr8, the only thing he doesn't like about his school is the distance as he hates the drive and isn't keen on the driver (he sings). He spends 50% of his time in mainstream, in subjects I never considered would be the ones he'd manage first - Maths, Science & PE!

@HexagonalBattenburg we were told they wouldn't attempt a diagnosis until she was 6.

They don't offer special school places unless they really need them, as they are like gold dust, and they don't keep them there unless they really need it, well this is what it is like within our LEA. If they are performing academically close to their chronological age, they will have to go back into mainstream, so it frees up the place for a child who really needs it.

Your dd could go for a couple of years to SS if they are making excellent progress and catching up with her mainstream peers, than you can move her later on. It sounds as though, right now, this is what she needs. The special school that ds hopefully will go to in September, is anything but keeping them happy. It has an outstanding Ofstead report, and when I looked around with dh, the teachers were passionate about their teaching and happy. For example we were shown a Yr4 classroom, they were learning about the human skeleton and the different bones, I was so impressed, in a Yr7 class, in RE they were learning about the Torah, Bible and Quran.

There were 3 tiers sensory, structured and scaffolded, to reflect pupils different abilities, sensory being, those who are more lower functioning, structured-those who were in the middle, and scaffolded-those who were very able academically. In their secondary school department, they offer a range of vocational qualifications and work placements, and are expanding their GCSEs. So not all special schools 'keep them happy'.

I really hope ds will go there, as he will fly, and do so well. The gap will widen in mainstream school, and his mainstream peers will be going at a far faster pace which will just affect his confidence. With the funding crisis now in mainstream schools for children with SEN, it is a good time for ds to go to SS.

Take it. I have dyspraxia and my confidence is shot to pieces because I spent my childhood thinking I was stupid. They wouldn't have offered her a place if she didn't need it. My 5 year old is 2 years behind in his development but I can't get him into our local special school.

One of mine is in special school, it's been a godsend.

Although ms was not right for DS1, and we went to Tribunal for indi specialist this particular school also turned out to be wrong when the headteacher changed and his placement failed in year 9. The policy, ethos and intake changed. He witnessed and was subject to more challenging behaviour from other pupils than would have been the case in ms. It was shocking how disablist his attitude and language toward himself and others became. His mental health nosedived.

He is now 18 in a week or so and after starting judicial review proceedings against the LA has direct payments and a personal budget for home tuition for 5 GCSEs which he will sit next year. His mental health remains fragile and he has weekly hour long visits from CAMHs youth worker and care coordinator.

I did not want ss for DS2 as there was no suitable placement. He tried ms in year 7 but only lasted 6 weeks. He now has a personal budget to fund internet school. He is 2e - autistic and academically gifted. He is only 12 but already studying 10 iGCSEs alongside year 10 pupils. He is thriving academically but more importantly his mental health is intact.

Without private expert reports, legal advice and therefore well specified EHCPs (and Tribunal) for both boys we would not have had the option of ss, JR or PB because the LAs first choice is always ms and the onus is on you to provide very strong counter evidence.

You need to look closely at why she has problems at her current school. Does she have EHCP? What kind of support she’s got? Has school got suitable training?
It’s much easier for her current school to say that she needs to be moved somewhere else than to do something. You can’t move her back to MS once she’s at special school until post 16, it just doesn’t happen this way.
Does she struggle with level of work or with school system itself? If it’s only work I would ask school to do something about it: additional one-to-one sessions, individualized homework, etc. Maybe you could find her a tutor.
If she can’t cope with noise, big classrooms, sitting for certain amount of time, of course she would be better in SS.

She could have all this friendships and bullying problems at SS as well. She might have lots of friends at MS secondary. No one knows. I would visit SS ( without your DD) and I would visit a few secondaries in your area. Secondary schools are usually much bigger that primary so have more children of similar abilities and teachers receive more training. And all schools suffer from cuts currently, including SS. It’s all depends on people involved and it’s difficult to guarantee anything 100%.
My problem with SS that they have tendency to have lower expectations to keep child relax and happy. It’s could be very important for some children but maybe not your case.
I have a child with SEN. She has EHCP and attends MS secondary. It’s hard, especially socially, but she’s happy there. Some of my friends children attend MS , some SS. There is no universal recipe - every child is unique and every school is unique.

Yes

I'm a primary Senco, and believe me, if she's being offered a place in special provision, then she should take it. Places are very hard to get, secondary schools are not the same as primary schools in that high needs SEN children can find themselves isolated from their old friends, particularly with the lack of funding for SEN.
She will have a great deal of transition to get familiar with her secondary school, and will most likely thrive there!
Accept the place now, you can always turn it down at a later date if you're still jot sure, but it won't happen the other way round.

She will not get anywhere near the support in mainstream secondary that she's had in primary. I'd take special school place.

If you are happy with the special school I would send her there. We are discovering the hard way there is a huge gap between primary and secondary - 14 different teacher’s - different classes, making new friends and adhoc homework. You have already said she is behind. We only discovered my daughter had special needs after the Stress of starting high school.

It’s not always a choice between a special school or large comprehensive.

There are independent schools that can offer small class sizes and personalised education. A student can get a EHCP to attend these schools.

Investigate if this is an option in your are before going down the special school path.

I'd take the SS place like a shot. My 2 DDs are both dyslexic & dyspraxic but have no other additional SEN and they both really struggled at a MS school.

My youngest in particular felt stupid the whole time she was there as she was in lower sets and also pretty dire at sports.

My eldest actually ended up having a mental breakdown in yr12 because none of the teachers knew how to help her at A level and the SEN support stopped at yr11. (I wanted her to go to the local college, but she didnt want to leave her friends).

This is a school that is regularly in the top 10% of schools in England for GCSE results. They get great results....both my DDs got good GCSEs because their teachers really pushed them, but their confidence suffered because most of their friends found it all so much more easy than they did. If you're not an academic pupil it can be soul destroying.

My youngest described yrs 7 to 11 as confusing, exhausting and constantly feeling like she was battling to catch up with her peers. She's now in yr12 at the local college, doing Btechs and is much, much happier.

My friend's DD who does have additional SEN started at the same school because her mum thought it was better for her to stay with her friends. Unfortunately they all matured far more quickly than she did, made new friends and her DD was left to cope alone.

She ended up leaving in yr9 beause she was so unhappy and went to a SS school were she was one of the more able pupils. It made such a huge difference to her confidence and her happiness. She's now in yr12 in a mainstream college studying Engineering and Beauty Therapy!

Does DD have any hobbies? Could she stay in touch with her closest friends through that?

My daughter found that to soften the blow of moving to a secondary school where none of her friends were going. Reassuring her that her that secondary splits people up so much, and if they knew they would see each other regularly out of school, it helped.

I would do it.

It's not about you, and I mean that in the kindest possible way

Unfortunately many special needs schools don't have a clue when it comes to educating pupils that are academically even close to the level expected of mainstream pupils of the same age

But some do. DS2 went to MLD schools with autism base from 5-14, transferred to ms in Y10 with good preparation, has 7 GSCEs, 2 A levels and a degree.
Many ms schools cannot remotely teach pupils with SN.

I just remembered that you were asking advice on broaching your dd’s Diagnosis with her. I have been through this with ds (Autism diagnosis) and the important thing to stress, is that there is nothing ‘wrong’ with being Dyspraxic, many people famous or not have dyspraxia. I bought some age appropriate books, this range of books is great, I have the autism and epilepsy versions and found them very useful

www.amazon.co.uk/Can-tell-about-Dyspraxia-professionals/dp/1849054479/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_2?keywords=i+have+dyspraxia&tag=mumsnetforum-21&ie=UTF8&qid=1544176454&sr=8-2-fkmr1

The dyspraxia foundation has this book, which might be worthwhile looking at, unfortunately there doesn’t seem to be a great variety of books written for dyspraxic children

dyspraxiafoundation.org.uk/shopping/product/books/new-youre-so-clumsy-charley/

If it helps, my dh has dyspraxia, he spent several years at primary level at a special needs school, where they supported him and taught him strategies to help him cope with his dyspraxia. He was then moved back to mainstream school. He went to a mainstream Academy, where he spent a great deal of time in the base. He felt that they held him back from attempting more qualifications, he left school with two Scottish higher in history and geography, both B’s. Unfortunately, he was horrifically bullied, which left him with very low self esteem.

My dh is a very intelligent man, with a high IQ, he does struggle with math and spelling but otherwise he has done very well for himself. He was very involved in a cycling club when younger. He got a job working offshore when he left school and worked his way up in drilling. He unfortunately had to give up his job to be my full time carer, but he is now a very respected member of our local community.

It might interest your dd that Daniel Radcliffe, the actor who played Harry Potter, is dyspraxic!
dyspraxiakids.com/famous-people-with-dyspraxia/

It helps to teach children of the success stories of people with dyspraxia. They need to know that dyspraxia need not hold them back from achieving their dreams

www.understood.org/en/learning-attention-issues/child-learning-disabilities/dyspraxia/dyspraxia-success-stories

Hi OP, only saying from my own experience with ds with dyspraxia - he struggled so much in school with very little help, even after dyspraxia diagnosis the senco did try but they just weren't best equipped. He was already near the end of secondary when we found out, so was old enough to be told at the time that he was being assessed so knew through the process what was happening so I can't offer any help on how to tell her.

But, I can say that once ds knew, it wasn't a get out as such, but it very much helped him understand why he is the way he is and why he struggles. He felt so much better knowing there was a name for how he is and it really helped his frustration at being so bright but not performing well because he couldn't understand what the problem was before. To know it wasn't "his fault" as such, was the best thing for his mental health and confidence. Wishing you and dd the best - and if I'd had the opportunity of a diffent school, I would have taken it.

It's a hard one because it's not like dyslexia, dyspraxia can be all sorts of things outside of actual school work. I had no idea it was the reason he'd never been able to tie shoe laces!!!