To find the idea of uterus donation and having the babies of a dead woman wrong and sick?

[SummerGems]

In general I am a supporter of organ donation. I do believe it’s a personal thing but for me the idea of donating the majority of my organs has never presented a problem. Until today.

Apparently a woman has given birth after receiving the donated uterus of a dead woman. Moreover, the babies she gave birth to were from the woman’s ovaries and eggs which were fertilised subsequent to her death.

Now, I am fully aware that people are going to say that it’s wonderful, that you can’t possibly know until you’ve been through fertility issues etc etc etc. But I personally think this is a step too far.

Obviously the people in question had choices and so on, but really, just because something can be done,doesn’t mean that it should. Are we really to believe that those children will be comfortable with the idea that they were conceived of a dead woman’s ovaries? That it’s right to create children where there is no biological parent just because someone has infertility? Not to mention the fact that according to the news reports all previous donations have resulted in miscarriages?

If uterus donation were to become a mainstream accepted thing I would be ticking the box to say that I didn’t consent. And if it were all or nothing I would refuse to be any kind of organ donor if it meant my uterus and/or my eggs would be donated.

I don't know if anyone else posted this article about the story, but it's really interesting!

It says 11 women have had babies with uteruses donated from living donors, but this is the first baby born from a transplant from a deceased donor.

www.sciencenews.org/article/first-woman-uterus-transplanted-deceased-donor-gives-birth

Really interesting! I think the idea of uterus transplant is acceptable, personally. I'd donate mine. Some women choose to donate eggs in life, and I suppose some choose to do so on their death as well; that wouldn't be something I'd do (so no ovaries on my transplant consent form), but isn't that a choice for each of us to make?

I suspect for a number of people, the knowledge that they were born because of a dead woman's uterus, would be difficult to know.

We know biological origins matter to a lot of people. I know infertile couples tend to underplay this. But we know from the adult children born from various technologies, that they have a very different view.

And if specific consent was not sought for this but lumped in with other organ donation, then I would not consent to organ donation.

Should just clarify i havent thought very hard about the egg part so if i dont have a problem with donation while alive i dont think i would have a problem if dead ASSUMING consent

Yet you're perfectly ok to judge people who are happy to donate OP. Irony much?

"What I do find ungenerous is very specifically this idea of 'they are my potential children so nobody else can have them"

I couldn't disagree with you more, I think this is an ethical minefield. Given that you seem to think that a dead woman's eggs should be up for grabs I suppose you agree with the court in Israel that allowed a dead 17 year old's parents to harvest her eggs so they could have another child (presumably to replace her). Personally I thought it was appalling and creepy as fuck. Women have to fight to have personal autonomy in life apparently in death we aren't allowed any.

I can't imagine being so ungenerous of spirit as to refuse my eggs to someone - after my death

Bloody hell, that’s a very strong statement. You really think any Women saying they don’t want their eggs to be given to someone else, is “ungenerous of spirit”? Fucking hell!

And what about the child- biologically yours and that of any other children you may have given birth to? Do they have a right to know each other or even be aware that they each exsist?

I wouldn’t want the uterus of a dead woman. Just something creepy about it.
It’s funny because I don’t feel that way about any other organ donated on death.

Well Id have accepted the uterus of a cow if that was the difference between having children or not. Its just another organ to me.

Yet you're perfectly ok to judge people who are happy to donate who said I judged the people who donated? I judge the process that allows it to happen. For every process there will be someone happy to put their name to it. If they started looking for brain donations someone would put themselves forward for it in the name of science, doesn’t make the fact the process exists ok though.

Where's the bit that says the uterus was taken without consent?

Did I miss a trick here?

Not too attached to my body parts (except literally of course ), but STEALING body parts is a bit much...

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But using the word 'sick' is a bit wrong. Its not sick.
Cornea transplants are not to save lives. But do you find them sick too?

Would i donate? Yes id happily donate both. But i understand those who would find it 'bizarre' or 'weird'.

!!!!! For anyone not reading the full thread - the woman the OP is talking about had a uterus transplanted! She had her own ovaries and therefore the children are biologically hers !!!!!

I personally wouldn't have an issue with my womb being used in this way, and in fact would donate to my daughters or DILs if they needed a womb and mine was of any use to them.

I personally would also donate eggs (am too old, but they are welcome to them).

I understand that others wouldn't be happy with either or both or none of the above and that is also fine. Each to their own.

Op - do you have children??

You think its sick to receive a uterus but not a liver/kidney etc. Why? Why is it "a step to far" (talking the uterus now, not genetic material)?

women already donates their eggs and men their sperm. Surely the donor did agree to this when she was alive and I see no problem with it.

Op - do you have children??

Is that relevant?

"I don't see how this is any different to adoption or sperm banks or surrogacy or anything like that?"

You seriously can't see a difference between those situations and the eggs of a dead woman who hasn't consented to having her eggs used? I'm signed up to be an organ donor and until today I would never have imagined that it could include my eggs being used, sure maybe my uterus but my eggs as well?

For me this is about consent. I am infertile and will never have children but that doesn't change my ethics, I could never use the eggs of a woman I know hasn't explicitly consented to it. If my DH who is also signed up to be an organ donor had his sperm harvested after his death and used to create a child it would really bother me as we've spent a decade trying to have a child that is biologically ours. It may not be rational but I would devastated to learn that someone else had used his harvested sperm to create his biological child after his death.

If they started looking for brain donations someone would put themselves forward for it in the name of science

Wouldn’t this actually be a body donation, not a brain donation? You are your brain. You have a body. It’s not the other way round!

Any donated body part could cause psychological problems/thoughts for the recipient. It’s something one would have to get ones head round.

Some parts may affect one more than others? I imagine a kidney is easier to live with than a face? Another’s heart beating inside one’s body may seem odd - until you think of the alternative - no heart beat. What have those corneas seen in their previous body?

But then I’m lucky enough, so far, not to have needed spare parts. I can be an armchair expert.

I can understand some thoughts associated with the transplant of a womb. But what if you’re born without?

Who am I to deny, by stating squeamishness, morals etc etc, others receiving one. If the donor’s family, new mother, partner are all ok with its then fine.

Look up MRKH, think of its implications then deny this operation to others.

Why is whether I have children relevant? But yes, in answer to your question I have a child, I have also been through secondary infertility, however I would never want the uterus of a dead woman implanted into me and neither would I ever have wanted to have a conversation with a child of mine to explain that they were born from the uterus of a dead woman.

And it’s different from a heart, kidney, liver etc because any of those organs would be used to save my life, not to (potentially) create more life at the possible risk of many babies through miscarriage during the process. And I find the idea of being born from the uterus of a dead woman quite horrifying, I can’t imagine that there won’t be children who grow up thinking similar.

I don't really like the thought of organ donation full stop. Breathing through someone else's lungs or having blood pumping through their heart cursing through my veins. Seeing through their eyes etc. I am on the organ donor register though because it doesn't matter to me what happens to my body after I die and also because it's moral (for me) to allow it - I also give blood and wouldn't hesitate to donate a kidney to a family member that needed it. So I'd be happy to consent to uterus and egg donation too. But I find the whole thing a bit grisly if I'm honest.

"women already donates their eggs and men their sperm. Surely the donor did agree to this when she was alive and I see no problem with it."

I hope so but if she was a ordinary person who was an organ donor do you really think she would have considered the possibility that it now could include her eggs? I must confess that until I heard about this I never thought that my being an organ donor included my eggs? If my eggs were any good (they're not) I would have no problem with it but I think people should be made aware and asked for explicit consent. Your eggs and sperm are not just organs, they can create life which is a massively significant consequence.

The difference with donating any other organ is it only involves the consent of the donator and receiver. With organs, eggs and sperm there is a third person involved who has not consented - the child born from this.