To find the idea of uterus donation and having the babies of a dead woman wrong and sick?

[SummerGems]

In general I am a supporter of organ donation. I do believe it’s a personal thing but for me the idea of donating the majority of my organs has never presented a problem. Until today.

Apparently a woman has given birth after receiving the donated uterus of a dead woman. Moreover, the babies she gave birth to were from the woman’s ovaries and eggs which were fertilised subsequent to her death.

Now, I am fully aware that people are going to say that it’s wonderful, that you can’t possibly know until you’ve been through fertility issues etc etc etc. But I personally think this is a step too far.

Obviously the people in question had choices and so on, but really, just because something can be done,doesn’t mean that it should. Are we really to believe that those children will be comfortable with the idea that they were conceived of a dead woman’s ovaries? That it’s right to create children where there is no biological parent just because someone has infertility? Not to mention the fact that according to the news reports all previous donations have resulted in miscarriages?

If uterus donation were to become a mainstream accepted thing I would be ticking the box to say that I didn’t consent. And if it were all or nothing I would refuse to be any kind of organ donor if it meant my uterus and/or my eggs would be donated.

I can't imagine being so ungenerous of spirit as to refuse my eggs to someone - after my death

Good for you. Are you so conditioned to be nice and caring and giving that you'd not only give away parts of your body to create a child which is biologically yours but also to castigate women who don't want to do that?!

Wow...feminism has a long way to go.

As for me, I don't owe anyone my potential biological children.

I read the whole post Lady, my post still stands. I'm guardian of those eggs in my body.

Those saying they wouldn't donate on the grounds that a uterus isn't life-saving I trust you've unticked 'corneas' and 'tissue' from the list of things you're willing to donate. God forbid part of your body is used just to give someone sight, full use of their hands etc

There's a massive difference between not wanting it to happen to your organs (and you don't have to consent) and being judgemental about other people who choose to do so.

Essentially you're saying it makes you feel irrationally icky and you want it stopped for that reason? The only vague argument you present is that the children might feel odd about it. If they do it will probably be because of attitudes like yours and I think it's unlikely they'll feel so odd about it that they'll wish they had never been born which is what you're suggesting.

OP, where did you get the bit about the eggs from?

AHeartAPenny

No one has to justify to anyone else why they don't want any particular organ/tissue donated after their death.

I’m all for organ donation - hopefully after I die they’ll be able to use anything that’s useful - but I think this is a step too far. Quite why, I’m not sure. I’ll have to think it over.

The uterus is an organ, just like any other. I don't have a problem with the donation of a uterus, as long it's done with the donor's consent.

The eggs were not from the dead woman either - they were the DM's own eggs. The baby was not born of a dead woman's eggs.

I read the whole post Lady, my post still stands. I'm guardian of those eggs in my body

I get that that's how you feel and what you want, and that's totally fine – you do you – but "because I say so" or "because I don't like it" doesn't really stand up in a discussion about medical ethics.

I'm interested in hearing the arguments that go beyond "But it's miiine!"

I'm interested in hearing the arguments that go beyond "But it's miiine

That's enough.

“Those saying they wouldn't donate on the grounds that a uterus isn't life-saving I trust you've unticked 'corneas' and 'tissue' from the list of things you're willing to donate. God forbid part of your body is used just to give someone sight, full use of their hands etc hmm”

My body. My decision. Dont give a fuck about your rolly eyes or your opinion.

Report on the news this morning stated the woman’s ovaries had also been donated so I stand corrected on that point.

I still don’t agree with uterus donation though although I also don’t agree with surrogacy. It’s like rent-a-womb and is wrong IMO. Equally I don’t for instance agree with the idea of hypothetically growing a baby in a laboratory.

And to add to the point re uterus donation, the bbc article states that previous women had had miscarriages with donated uteruses, so this isn’t just about being able to transplant an organ and celebrating the miracle of life. How many babies will be lost through all this experimentation? Possibly even later into pregnancy?

Even IVF still has an incredibly low success rate given how long it’s been happening (around 30% on average), is it fair to add the potential of miscarriage plus all the implications that brings including the low success rate of possible IVF, the side effects and impacts of anti rejection drugs plus the potential for rejection and then possible further surgery to remove the rejected uterus if/when that occurs, and for what? Are we seriously to believe that this is being done to hale a breakthrough in fertility treatment? Or is it potentially being done to try to play god and go against nature by proving that we as humans know best and can achieve anything?

And that’s before you factor in the potential cost of all this experimentation.

I think if it means the woman was able to have a baby then that’s a good thing. I am lucky I have a child but if I couldn’t, then I’m sure I would want to try everything possible.

I guess the next step with treatment like this is transgender women being able to have children- which obviously brings more complex ethical issues/ questions.

I am an organ doner and have consented to eyes etc. I’m honestly not sure how I would feel about womb, though.

Oh God the trans activists be all over this story as proof that transwomen 'could get pregnant'.

I don't really have a problem with uterus donation as long as the donator is totally happy with that happening. I do have a fucking problem with women who would not want to do this, or donate their eggs, being called 'ungenerous of spirit'.

Ungenerous?! What a load of tosh. I’m not property of the state. I want to care for my own genetic children and would be uncomfortable with them being raised in uncertain circumstances.

The difference (to me) is uterus = organ donation; not unlike heart/lungs and could be listed as an option on a donor card. Eggs = genetic donation, amd the only person that consent to that donation, dead or alive, is the owner of that genetic material. So if you want to donate eggs or sperm when you are alive - great. If anyone wants to take them from your dead body without consent - hell to the nope. Not my husband wanting another child, not my parents wanting to recreate me, not some random stranger - not without my consent.

AnElderlyLadyOfMediumHeight

I'm not saying you're anti feminist yourself but the notion and concept that women must be kind and giving and think of others all the time is very anti feminist to me. I would hate anyone else to use my eggs...it would genuinely upset and distress me to think my own biological children were being cared for by someone else. Why does that make me ungenerous?

And as harsh as it sounds, someone's else's infertility is not my problem or my responsibility.

I'm not saying you're anti feminist yourself but the notion and concept that women must be kind and giving and think of others all the time is very anti feminist to me. I would hate anyone else to use my eggs...it would genuinely upset and distress me to think my own biological children were being cared for by someone else. Why does that make me ungenerous?

^^^THIS.

I am also sick and tired of the notion that because I am female, I am public property and therefore must capitulate in every sense, for fear of seeming ‘unkind’ or the dreaded ‘selfish’.

PerfectPeony well, it’s surely only a matter of time before a transgender woman can have a uterus implant and actually become a woman in every sense of the word including being able to have children.

Although I’ll admit that element hadn’t entered into my thinking and am keen for this not to turn into a trans thread on that basis.... ;)

I’d have no issues with this. Take it all. It’s no use to me after death.

Why is everyone talking about people stealing their genetic material without consent. No one has ever suggested doing that. You can even not consent to your other organs being donated if you want.

While you have the right to refuse consent to your heart, lungs etc being donated without justifying yourself we very much have the right to judge for your choice. (You may not care about our judgement - that's your perogative but having the right to do something doesn't mean you have the right to do it without judgement.).

We should certainly move to an opt out organ donation system but this obviously wouldn't include genetic material which I feel is distinct and needs specific consent.