To find the idea of uterus donation and having the babies of a dead woman wrong and sick?

[SummerGems]

In general I am a supporter of organ donation. I do believe it’s a personal thing but for me the idea of donating the majority of my organs has never presented a problem. Until today.

Apparently a woman has given birth after receiving the donated uterus of a dead woman. Moreover, the babies she gave birth to were from the woman’s ovaries and eggs which were fertilised subsequent to her death.

Now, I am fully aware that people are going to say that it’s wonderful, that you can’t possibly know until you’ve been through fertility issues etc etc etc. But I personally think this is a step too far.

Obviously the people in question had choices and so on, but really, just because something can be done,doesn’t mean that it should. Are we really to believe that those children will be comfortable with the idea that they were conceived of a dead woman’s ovaries? That it’s right to create children where there is no biological parent just because someone has infertility? Not to mention the fact that according to the news reports all previous donations have resulted in miscarriages?

If uterus donation were to become a mainstream accepted thing I would be ticking the box to say that I didn’t consent. And if it were all or nothing I would refuse to be any kind of organ donor if it meant my uterus and/or my eggs would be donated.

No way should public money be used for a ten hour operation which isn't for saving someone's life.

Public money is used for all kinds of non-life-saving operations and treatments. Cochlear implants for the deaf, reconstructive surgery after a mastectomy, the setting of broken bones, tonsillectomies, treatment of PCOS symptoms...
Fortunately, "is this a life-saving procedure?" isn't the only thing that determines whether something should or will be funded from the public purse.

YABU, organ donation is one of the miracles of the modern world. This is no different than the fears that the first ever heart transplant would also bring the soul of the dead person back to life.

When I am dead I am happy to donate every part of my body for whatever use they can find for it. And if it enabled another woman to have a baby then that would be amazing.

We are ALL star dust!

I had fertility treatment to have my children. Infertility is awful, if part of my body could be used after my death to help another woman overcome it, I would be happy to do it. I’ve been listening to uterine cancer survivors on the radio talking about the hope it has given them.

Unfortunately I think I am probably ruled out as I’ve had two C-sections.

@SummerGems , I find that post incredibly sad. Infertility is horrific. And what's it to you, you are dead? Personally I would not go against someone's wishes, but I find your logic lacking.

I am unsure if this has been mentioned before, but for what it's worth, in Brazil the person that decides the fate of a dead's organs is the family, the dead has no say.

The Ministry of Heath advises people who want to donate their organs after they die to tell relatives, as that's all they can do. This is problematic - 47% of relatives say they will not even consider donating a relative's organs.

In this case, it's very possible the dead woman whose womb was donated did not consent.

Also, seeing as 98% of transplants in Brazil are made by our NHS (SUS), this was likely paid by public money. I know this thread was created to debate the ethics of womb transplants, but it very much angers me that thousands of people die of various treatable illnesses in Brazil due to lack of funding, and god knows how much was spent in a womb transplant.

So much ignorance about this.

My friend was born with no womb but had ovaries. She had three of her own biological children using surrogates.

She would have loved to have the chance to carry her own child.

Could someone point me to any news articles about ovarian transplantation from deceased donors - and how that would work? To donate eggs you have to go through the IVF process of ovarian stimulation - a dead person can't do that. There have been cases of young cancer patients freezing their own ovarian tissue before chemotherapy and then having that tissue re-transplanted back into their own body into their still - present - but - inactive ovaries, to then be able to grow new eggs

I am not aware of any kind of ovarian transplantation of any sort having ever been achieved, though happy to be corrected

You can only donate eggs in the UK after going through full implications counselling, and with a donor conceived child having the right to contact you when they're 18

Talk of ovaries is completely different to wombs.

If someone can show that it's even remotely possible to do this, I'd be grateful

Womb transplants for women with MRKH - who have working ovaries but no uterus - have to date only been done via live transplantation (living donors who are close relatives). This is the first one from a deceased donor.

The funds have been raised in the UK by a charity to fund research into this area for women with AUFI (absolute uterine factor infertility - ie no womb either by birth or hysterectomy for cancer treatment)

The UK trials underway are, according to the BBC, using a mix of deceased and living donors.

If womb transplants from deceased donors were ever to become mainstream then - as with any organ - a donor can register their wishes about which organs they do and don't consent to being transplanted. This is very experimental medicine at this stage.

Eggs from a deceased person are NOT being trialled in this case and I am not aware of any case where this has been done (sperm has in select cases, but not eggs to my knowledge)

If you don't wish for your womb to be used in a womb transplantation to help an infertile woman have a child, then you can very clearly opt out from your womb being used for donation.

This is not the same as egg donation. Again, happy to be corrected if trials are underway with ovarian tissue transplants.

Given that egg donation is relatively straightforward with a live donor, I'm unsure why a deceased donor - who'd require invasive surgery to transplant tissue into the recipients ovaries (if this were even possible) - would even be considered when you can't retrieve mature eggs so it would require more complex procedures.

Again, that's not what is being discussed here.

Do people think the live donations are equally sick? Post menopausal mothers having voluntary hysterectomies to donate their uteruses to their daughters with MRKH, as has been the case in the Swedish trial. Or a sister who's completed her family?

Say woman A donates her uterus to her sister woman B, to enable B to carry her own biological child - so the baby is fully genetically B's, carried in B's body, with A's donated womb.

is this more or less sick than if the same woman offered to be a surrogate for her sister - so A carries B's genetic baby within her womb.

Both non commercial loving acts.

1. Involves the sister A having a voluntary hysterectomy, and sister B going through pregnancy

1. Involves sister A going through pregnancy

Both with B's genetic baby.

Non commercial, altruistic. Are both equally abhorrent?

You are allowed to feel how ever you like. But you need to understand that your negative feelings toward this are irrelevant to others making decisions for themselves.

The eggs belonged to the woman recipient. Her eggs were fine but she didn't have a uterus. She only received a uterus transplant. Helps to read reliable articles first. There's no way they would give the eggs of a dead woman to a living woman. Way too many ethical issues surrounding that!

And what's it to you, you are dead? Personally I would not go against someone's wishes, but I find your logic lacking

I have always made it clear to the person who would be asked if anything were to happen to me that all parts of my body could be used with the exception of any part which would or could be used for infertility treatment or infertility research.

I would strongly object to ova , my genetic material, being used to create a child I would have no knowledge of or involvement with. I would not want my uterus used for that purpose.

@LassWiADelicateAir

Again... the recipient used her own eggs. The uterus was donated.

I'm just amazed that science can do this. All the immune system challenges. I wonder if C-section b/c it was a donor organ & they weren't sure it would perform, or from maternal preference.

Nothing creepy about it, just super amazing scientific achievement.

Every birth from a transplanted womb to date (from what I've read) has been a c-section, so I assume medical reasons rather than maternal preference

www.newscientist.com/article/dn28261-womb-transplants-get-go-ahead-in-the-uk-what-you-need-to-know/

rainbowquack
@LassWiADelicateAir

Again... the recipient used her own eggs. The uterus was donated

I said I would strongly object to my uterus being used to create a child I would know nothing of or have no involvement with.

@LassWiADelicateAir

I said I would strongly object to my uterus being used to create a child I would know nothing of or have no involvement with.

But you wouldn't be in any way related to said child.

But you wouldn't be in any way related to said child

It would have grown in my uterus. The child would not exist if my uterus had not been used. I find this procedure absolutely revolting to be honest.

I think it’s great and would donate my womb! My sister was born without one and a few years ago this story came out that it was successful, I sent the story to her and I could tell she felt some hope.
I would donate my womb now to her if I could, but then I’d also do surrogacy so not in the MN majority.
Your organs are no use to you dead, I think most people would be happy knowing when they died they could not only save lives with organs but also give someone one of the happiest joys in life.
Donating eyes is not ‘life saving’ but I’d do it to give someone the chance to see again.

Then I assume you must be against all transplants to people if a reproductive age or younger Lass because "that baby wouldnt be born if my heart/kidney/lungs hadnt been used" works equally well.

No. That is a false analogy. Those organs are not being used to create another human being. I cannot divorce myself from the fact my womb would have been used to create the child.

I'm past the age it matters now but I have always been adamant no organs or tissue from me were to be used for reproductive health issues.

You are allowed to feel how ever you like. But you need to understand that your negative feelings toward this are irrelevant to others making decisions for themselves.

I agree but it works both ways and people not wanting to shouldn't be called ungenerous or be told their reasons are not good enough.

You are allowed to feel how ever you like. But you need to understand that your positive feelings toward this are irrelevant to others making decisions for themselves.

I would judge someone for not donating organs the same way I would for not vaccinating their children. It’s irresponsible, and the typical ‘I’m alright, jack’ attitude that so many people seem to have these days.

I’d be fine with someone having my uterus but not my eggs.

I would happily donate my organs(and I’m on the register, have had the conversation with my next of kin, but if there is any organs they feel uncomfortable with they are free to say no and use the remainder, but I would like as many as possible to be used), I donate blood and in about 6-8 weeks I will be donating my eggs. I am done having children, I hope someone will be able to use them. But others judgements on this don’t matter to me, it’s my choice, and it’s the recipients choice to use them, also not anyone else’s choice. And I don’t have a biological dad around, never met him, and at 25 never really wondered about him either, my parent is my dad who raised me.

When I go -take whatever you like.

If my uterus helps you have a baby - I would be incredibly happy. Infertility is absolutely random, soul destroying and if you haven't experienced it -it's a feeling of losing everything, failure, fear, and having nothing and grieving all at the same time.

I've thought about donating my eggs. But I'm over the age limit. If I had known it before I would have done it multiple times as many as I could. The gift of life is the greatest gift of all.