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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To wish the extra funding for grammar schools was £500 million rather than £50 million.

254 replies

letstalk2000 · 03/12/2018 21:43

www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/government-gives-16-grammar-schools-in-england-a-share-of-£50m-funding-pot-to-expand/ar-BBQqmk6

Instead of just 16 grammar schools sharing the pot of £50 million . It should be the full 164 of grammar schools hence the £500 million requirement.

Grammar schools as the flagships of the state education sector should have all the resources they require . In order to ensure a world class education is available to those that can make use of one.

I am not stupid and realise to make statements like this on here puts me on par with Nigel Farage or Katie Hopkins in the hearts and minds of the cohort which inhabits this parish !
However, I have a belief that if you have limited resources available you should make sure what you have got does not get wasted; i.e. put it in to areas such as selective education.

After all there are only about 220 good secondary schools in England with 164 of them being grammar schools. The other 56 being de facto grammar schools despite posing as comprehensives. This proves you cant be successful if you are all things to all people !

OP posts:
sashh · 04/12/2018 09:29

Grammar schools receive less than other schools. They need more money.

They have fewer children with learning disabilities, SEND, emotional problems, chaotic life styles, looked after children, thy don't need a s much funding.

Children who have been tutored for years, from nice backgrounds with good manners and the ability to sit still for hours will succeed in a single classroom with a blackboard and a teacher.

Original poster
letstalk2000 · 04/12/2018 09:30

We do not know how many grammar school pupils come from families that earn just over the FSM threshold of £14,600. There are also children who don't qualify for EHCP support that really should.

The councils hide behind similar assumption made on here that if you go to a grammar school you wake up to the sun shining every day !

OP posts:
BorisBogtrotter · 04/12/2018 09:31

"Please don’t patronise me when you not only do I have a dc in Sec modern, SS grammar, normal grammar and private."

You were making a point about exceptions when in general they don't apply, a typical MN bit of ridiculousness.

of COURSE there are some SEN children in grammar schools, just disproportionately fewer of them, along with EAL and PP students.

And factually, the majority of Grammar schools are in Tory voting areas.

BorisBogtrotter · 04/12/2018 09:33

"Have what better? Funding? No, Family life? No"

Proportionately grammar school students come from the highest income groups, there are a lot of other things that go along with that.

So yes, they do.

Shitlandpony · 04/12/2018 09:34

I'd rather education was improved full stop. Special educational needs is far more in crisis than grammar schools and confidently grammars tend to weed out sen kids

Not in my area they don’t, it has a unit for pupils for ASD which is being expanded.

I am not supporting more funding for grammars necessarily but some of the tripe spouted on gets is really inaccurate.

Free school meals is too crude a method of indentifying family income, ECHP is not an accurate method of measuring SN either, especially as IEP have been stopped.

Shitlandpony · 04/12/2018 09:35

Sorry Borisbogtrotter but I completely disagree, if you think that mental health, parental deaths and family upheaval are more heavily represented in comprehensive schools then you are wrong.

wonkylegs · 04/12/2018 09:41

I'm another one who would prefer the money go into the general pot and we improve education provision as a whole rather than funding pet projects that further the divide in society.

Mind you I live in a region where education provision is so poor and faces so many challenges (social issues, underemployment, health, poverty etc ), as well as ingrained problems that schools are really struggling. I see a bleak future for many kids who really aren't going to be given the chances they should be. It upsets me and makes me angry in equal measures.

BorisBogtrotter · 04/12/2018 09:44

," if you think that mental health, parental deaths and family upheaval are more heavily represented in comprehensive schools then you are wrong"

Exceptionalism again. Poor arguing too.

But yes, family upheaval and difficult living conditions are far more represented in comprehensive schools than in grammars.

Original poster
letstalk2000 · 04/12/2018 09:51

Shitland . Well done to the Judd . It is quite amazing the improvement my son has made since we moved him from his comp at the end of year 10 to a private school. The comp predicted he would achieve at best level 2 in English and Maths. Last year after repeating year 10 achieved level 6 in Maths/English @ the private school.

He has just turned 18 in lower 6th and his A level work is outstanding ! The school think he is capable of attaining As in his three A levels if he continues his rate of progress . The improvement in his academic work in just over 2 years is phenomenal

This is testament to a selective approach to education.

OP posts:
FruitCider · 04/12/2018 09:57

Absolutely no way OP, there isn't a grammar school within 25 miles of my home so my child won't benefit. Meanwhile my child's school funding will be slashed by a whopping £200'000 by 2020. Id rather they refund my child's school properly 😳

sar302 · 04/12/2018 10:00

Nope! As someone who went to grammar school, and would send her child to grammar school in a heartbeat, I'd much rather it was spent on SEN.

Our school had very little money, which meant we got shit, 5th hand text books. The little money being funnelled into SEN however, is little less than a crime against some of the country's most vulnerable children.

FruitCider · 04/12/2018 10:00

We give £14 billon a year away on foreign aid, if we reduced that to £4 billon we could split the £10 billion saving between education and welfare

Given that the British Empire has fucked over loads of countries in its lifetime, foreign aid is the least it can do.

👏👏👏

JacquesHammer · 04/12/2018 10:03

YABU OP.

My DD is at a grammar and I don’t believe it needs more funding.

The entire education system needs an overhaul though from primary level up.

JacquesHammer · 04/12/2018 10:04

Just to add she isn’t at one that is getting the extra funding - I would rather the money earmarked for grammar schools goes elsewhere.

BorisBogtrotter · 04/12/2018 10:07

Grammar schoools improving results is a myth anyway.

The latest studies show that the improved results are down to higher ability and the fact that have higher levels of wealth.

Take the top set in your average comp and compare their results to the grammar and you won't find much difference.

FormerlyFrikadela01 · 04/12/2018 10:29

This is testament to a selective approach to education.

So channel the money into the children that will be "selected" and fuck the rest... nice. Hmm

BorisBogtrotter · 04/12/2018 10:32

"This is testament to a selective approach to education"##

Your son wouldn't have got in selectively if you hadn't' selected on your ability to pay.

You're only telling a bit of this story here too I think. From a 2 in English and maths to a 6 when you had an extra year is not just down to selectivity, its down to the repeat.

ghostsandghoulies · 04/12/2018 10:33

I think that children with SEN need this money more. When I lived in London suburbs, I was shocked to hear that a neighbours child had to travel over 90 minutes each way to access the school that he needed. You mentioned grammar school kids who have SN but don't have an EHCP. I think that kids in that situation (not just at grammar) could do with the money.

Notso · 04/12/2018 10:42

There's none in my area, I can't get behind massive amounts of funding for schools that are unavailable for so many.

thepotato · 04/12/2018 12:34

Interesting that posters are claiming anecdotally that grammar schools have higher numbers of children with SEN without an EHCP than secondary schools or comprehensives.
If that actually was the case the exclusion rates at Grammar schools would be higher than secondaries and comprehensives.

BorisBogtrotter · 04/12/2018 12:45

Anecdote is not the pural of data, which of course disproves these anecdotes.

Original poster
letstalk2000 · 04/12/2018 12:52

Why ! Because a child has SENs does not mean the child is automatically likely to be disruptive or violent !

Behaviour of such that leads to expulsion has as much to do with parents, environment expectations as the special needs of the child.

My son has never been sent out of a class never mind have I ever been phoned or called in about behaviour. DD 2 on the other hand has been a bit of a madam despite being in line for 4,9s and 5,8s next year at her grammar with no diagnosed problems .

OP posts:
Original poster
letstalk2000 · 04/12/2018 12:54

'Exclusion' Sorry...

OP posts:
BorisBogtrotter · 04/12/2018 12:58

"SENs does not mean the child is automatically likely to be disruptive or violent !"

However over a wide level of population those with SEN are more likely to be, and are more likely to be excluded.

Again, as grammar schools take significantly less students with SEN then their exclusion rates are lower.

Bechetdiagnosed · 04/12/2018 13:03

My DD attends one of the grammar schools benefitting from the funding. My DD receives FSM and the school has been fantastic. She’s on target to get 9’s in most subjects.

However, over half of the students in her class attending private school at primary level. I do not agree with this. I personally think students should only be admitted if they come from a state primary school.