To wish the extra funding for grammar schools was £500 million rather than £50 million.

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www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/government-gives-16-grammar-schools-in-england-a-share-of-£50m-funding-pot-to-expand/ar-BBQqmk6

Instead of just 16 grammar schools sharing the pot of £50 million . It should be the full 164 of grammar schools hence the £500 million requirement.

Grammar schools as the flagships of the state education sector should have all the resources they require . In order to ensure a world class education is available to those that can make use of one.

I am not stupid and realise to make statements like this on here puts me on par with Nigel Farage or Katie Hopkins in the hearts and minds of the cohort which inhabits this parish !
However, I have a belief that if you have limited resources available you should make sure what you have got does not get wasted; i.e. put it in to areas such as selective education.

After all there are only about 220 good secondary schools in England with 164 of them being grammar schools. The other 56 being de facto grammar schools despite posing as comprehensives. This proves you cant be successful if you are all things to all people !

They should do away with grammar schools all together. All schools should be properly funded not just the ones you send your children to.

YABVVU. I say that as a parent whose daughters have had the benefit of a grammar school education. Fill a school full of very bright motivatef children and they will do well. If there is a spare 50 million I should think there are school with much greater need of funds.

My Autistic son was failed by his comprehensive school by a lack of knowledge rather than funding though...

Children who are twice gifted are most likely to do badly in a grammar school selection process. There are a number of hoops to jump through, all the hoops must be jumped through a child who is reasonably able at everything will get into a grammar school. A child with a spiky profile may do exceptionally well at say maths but if they can't successfully infer answers in a comprehension test, or have difficulty focusing on verbal reasoning questions or get stressed in time pressure then they are out. They may then end up at a secondary modern being way ahead of any peers in maths because all of their peers are in grammar schools. Grammar schools suit academic all rounders and that is what they select for.

The Grammar I work at has plenty of children from all sorts of backgrounds and those children deserve the same money per head as children at non-selective schools. Thanks to government and council decisions they won't be getting it. Our SEN budget is no where near enough as it is. A child is a child and the cuts to grammars are disgusting, it's blinkered rubbish that all these kids are from wealthy, supportive, privileged families.

@Walkingdeadfangirl "What exactly do you think Grammar schools need more money for?"
The SEN that everyone else wants more money for?! We only want the same. Not more. Clearly that annoys you.

Grammar students get less per head per annum this year than non-grammar students. No doubt they deserve it because they all have perfect lives and are middle-class all-rounders. I should tell them, no doubt your options will be a great relief.

This will end the way it always does so I don't know why I've commented. Probably pregnancy hormones - I'm getting the rage pretty easily at the moment 😂

Education spending in England will be about £70 billion in 2017/18 of that about £30 billon of which will be spent in Schools from 4-16. £4 billion extra spent on Primary/Secondary schools would be an increase of 13% every year . That's Enough to improve SEN provision and to stop the cuts head on. The other 1 billon a year of the £5billon provided for 'schools' could go to FE Colleges and be allocated to Vocational and Btec type courses.

The proposed £500 million would be a one off payment of £3 million equally given to the 163 grammar schools on the provision of admitting at least 20 children with FSM and 5 bright children with SEN needs each year.

This is possible without increasing taxes and without having to increase borrowing . It is a matter of how we choose to spend taxpayers money...

So you want 500 million to be invested on educating less than 5% of the population? Yes, that sounds completely fair and sensible

Especially when these are already the most privileged 5%.

I would totally be with spending any spare £500m (or £50m come to that) on the most vulnerable and needy 5%. You know, the families that don't have school places for their dc to go to. The ones with complex needs that are shoved into completely unsuitable placements. The ones with children whose anxiety makes them behave in a way that presents as violence. The ones in mental health crises that have such a pitifully underfunded CAMHS funds that they will never bee seen or given any support. The ones who are "lucky" enough to actually be allocated a school place, but then refused transport to get them there. The ones who might just about be 'coping' hanging on by a thread to remain in the lessons but are not able to attend wrap around care or holiday clubs as there is no funding to support the staff there.
The teachers who are supposed to be teaching a class of 30 children, with a wide range of abilities and needs, but also somehow supposed to be meeting the needs of the 4 or 5 children in their class who have - or are waiting for EHCPs as their needs are so great. The dinner supervisors, who, with no training and very little pay are supposed to manage the overwhelmed and extremely anxious children with autism trying to cope in a playground. I could go on and on, but hope you get the idea.

Grammar schools getting good results is hardly surprising. You cream off the brightest kids (as far as the 11+ can measure that) with the parents who invest time and money into their education. I bloody well hope those schools get better results than the comprehensive next door which loses that top 10% or so and has all the kids who cost more money to educate.

I’d love to see an extra £500 million go to SEN funding, both special schools and supporting kids in mainstream who have SEN

FWIW I didn’t go to grammar, I like in the vast majority of the country which doesn’t have grammar schools.

The Grammar I work at has plenty of children from all sorts of backgrounds and those children deserve the same money per head as children at non-selective schools. Thanks to government and council decisions they won't be getting it. Our SEN budget is no where near enough as it is. A child is a child and the cuts to grammars are disgusting, it's blinkered rubbish that all these kids are from wealthy, supportive, privileged families.

Cristina because of all this anti grammar school rubbish, I think this is like pennies from heaven for councils. They have a free aim at cutting grammar school funding without receiving the hatred ...

Yes let’s plough loads of funding into grammar schools full of rich middle class pupils who got there because of their rich middle class parents who paid for private tutoring to coach them through the entrance exam

I'd like there to be special needs provision that is suitable for my son and many like him, rather than endless cuts and closures...but hey ho

^ this.

It’s an absolute disgrace that the government is giving all this money to expand grammar schools when there’s thousands of children with SEN struggling to access any adequate education for want of funding.

And there’s not one single grammar school in my county, so no child living in my county will benefit from this extra money to grammar schools either.

Yes a £500 million one of payment to improve social cohesion and start addressing the issues some people have with grammar schools.

Goodness me what happens to all the children in my area where there are no grammar schools? Does this mean that my children and all the others here are destined to fail and end up in the gutter because we live 100+ miles away from the nearest GS?
Don’t be so stupid OP grammar schools are not a panacea. What would make a huge difference is giving ALL children access to the highest possible education available.

Round me the good comprehensives do a great job building social cohesion, and support children of all abilities to do well.

Because as London schools they are comparatively better funded. London comps do better, on average, than elsewhere. So, fund all schools better but get rid of the bloody Grammars.

@BeanBagLady the attitude of parents at London comps helps as well. If you have parents who are interested let alone actively involved in your education then you will do better. Most London schools have a good percentage of children from first and second generation immigrant families who value education hence my previous comment about pesky foreigners.

if the foreign aid budget is cut do you think the money would go to another government department or just be used to slash taxes for the rich?
I would give it to the NHS, education and/or the police. But I would be open to what is best for the country.

ChristinaMarlowe, Grammar schools get the same SEN financial provision as every other school, why do you think they are a special case? It doesn't annoy me, I am just curious why you think SEN children at grammar schools are different from those in comprehensive schools?

Careful OP don’t you know you’re not allowed to say that the bright also deserve a good education and to be stretched academically on here you know!

Christina-what percentage of your pupils have an EHCP?

Most DC who attend grammar schools/ RG unis or go the prep-public school- Oxbridge route really do not set the world on fire.
The biggest indicator of future success is a happy home life with fairly well educated, middle income and well engaged parents. The involvement of wider family and community is a huge marker too.

Should you choose to ignore this, the society your children will have to live and work in is also important. Grammar schools prioritise a very narrow set of academic skills - that means skills needed by people who will become academics.

Not engineers, physios, programmers etc. just teachers and professors.

We’re letting down the majority of our young people by prioritising academic skills above vocational ability. There shouldn’t be a value judgement laid on the theory rather than the practice.

Investment should be targeted at the historic underinvestment, and valuation, of practical skills.

Believe. Nobody alive had anything to do with the British Empire fucking about countries

Wow just wow just wow. Sorry were to start with this statement OP I'm literally spechless.

We learn from history OP nobody alive had anything to do with the first world war either, or tbh, their aren't many alive that would have had much to do with the second world war either. Maybe we should stop funding the NHS, or maybe we should ust allow right wing extremist raise to be powet and not be concerned about it.

And as for tje statement that no one alive has anything to do with british empire countries, have you heard of the commonwealth????? The countries that still call the queen the head of state, those are the british empire counties, but i guess they don't matter, their really small countries where absolutely no one lives, i mean no one has heard pf austraila and canada have they? No one at all lives in those places noooooooooo.

As there are people living in a desputed part of the british empire, today, every day an area that until 20 years ago was a warzone, in fact the fear is it kay return to one. So maybe tell the people in northern ireland that no one alive had anytbing to do with the british empire countries. They'll tell you that many people alive had a lot to do with it.

You say that precious resouces shouldnt be wasted, ie they should be put in to seletive education. Nope, not wasting it would be putting the money in to special needs education, BME communities, womens rights, anything that levels the playing field and gives more people the oppunities rather than funding something as derisive and funding the few as selective education.

You say that the good schools are defacto grammers? What do you mean by that? That they select their pupils?? One of the best comps in the country most defimately isnt in any way a defacto comp, its my old school. A good school yes.

Oh what a wonderful idea, lets give this money to schools chock full of nice little children with parents who will most likely vote conservative.

We don't have grammar schools in my area. Just lots of failing comps.... my child is clearly fucked.

“Grammar students get less per head per annum this year than non-grammar students.”

Yes, because of the very low levels if children in Pupil Premium.

But aside the grammar school issue (mine isn't one of the ones expanding), the following is true:
ALL state schools are currently underfunded. Changes to exam specs, pension changes and pay rises have all been made without being fully funded. Less money in schools.
Grammars and schools with sixth forms lost out recently through changes to how A levels were funded.
This is quite frankly a sideshow. A distraction meaning that people are focusing on the grammar school debate instead of fighting the wider battle for education funding.

A distraction meaning that people are focusing on the grammar school debate instead of fighting the wider battle for education funding.

I think that everybody knows how woeful the funding is for schools, particularly in some areas as we don't yet have fair school funding as the amount per child is not the same in all parts of the country. It's also fairly clear that there isn't going to be extra money and so the focus is going to be on sharing the pot fairly and whether or not money for grammar schools is money fairly spent when it's only for a small minority of the school population.

If, as I have, you look at school budgets and annual reports, you will soon see just how little money there is and how just how insulting it is to see a large pot of money going into grammar schools for the middle classes, especially when you go and visit a grammar school open evening and see all the children in their private prep school uniform who are doing the 11+ to save having to pay for private education. In some areas, grammar schools are state approved, state funded private schools (and yes, I know academies are considered to be privately run state schools but it's not the same as by and large they are comprehensives).

The wider battle for more education funding is lost until we have a change of priority in government - a change that many people accept will never happen - and the government properly fund schools without the insult of money for 'little extras' which they know full well will have to be used for those lovely little 'extras' like pencils, glue sticks, and even teachers and teaching assistants for children with SEND.

As always happens at these meetings, I'll be discussing school finances next week and trying to work out a way to eek out a few more pennies from somewhere. We don't have a magic money tree in the school grounds no matter what central government seem to think.